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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    So no international age limits on "juniors"?



    Required elements have to be elements that everyone can do.

    Will you also require triple axels for all senior men?

    Why not require other skills that are common among top contenders and rare among the vast majority who don't make it to the TV broadcasts?

    I agree with Susan M -- finding a way to require or at least reward 6 different correct jump takeoffs in the long program, with doubles triples or quads meeting the requirement, makes much more sense than requiring jumps in the short program that most skaters ARE NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE OF.
    I look at it just the opposite.... You have to be able to do the required elements. Not that the elements have to be ones the You can do.

    I neither said nor implied that anyone do the impossible. Geesh!
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  2. #82

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    As long as you're not expecting all competitive female skaters over age 19 to do triple lutzes and flips on demand, which is just unrealistic. The requirements need to be realistic.

  3. #83
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    Do away with the short program. Skating is much too expensive for the skaters. Doing away with the short would reduce their costume and choreography expenditures significantly as well as the amount spent on ice time, etc.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Do away with the short program. Skating is much too expensive for the skaters. Doing away with the short would reduce their costume and choreography expenditures significantly as well as the amount spent on ice time, etc.


    That would really make it do or die but it would mean we'd see a lot less skating. As a fan who likes watching lots of skating, I would selfishly disapprove of that. I wonder if any skaters would prefer that.

  5. #85
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    We could just get rid of live competitions altogether, and have the skaters send in the videos that they've edited together. There could be five different soundtracks, so that the judges could pick their preferred music.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #86

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    Bring back the spirals in ladies! Or at least let the choreo sequence precede the step sequence because 90% of free programmes end up in a similar way.
    Oh, and a new rule for next seasons - forbid the skaters to mime lyrics and deduct from their PCS if they do .

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    A true omission of a required element already gets 0 points.
    When a triple jump is required, a double is a true ommission. And I think you still have points for that.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    When a triple jump is required, a double is a true ommission. And I think you still have points for that.
    A double is a failure to complete the element correctly, but isn't considered an omission, and wasn't under the 6.0 system either. A "true omission" would be doing nothing that could be recognized as an attempt at the element. Yes, doubles do get some ponts in the SP when a triple is required, but the base value is lowered and a -3 GOE is given that it's an exceptionally costly mistake. I can kind of see your point though, because if a skater *intended* to do a CCoSp but only ended up doing CoSp then they wouldn't get any base value points in the SP if a change of foot was required (which it is at the Junior and Senior levels). A double where a triple is required could arguably be considered a comparable failure. However, skaters already get so few points for such an error that I don't think it would have much of an effect on the results very often.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    I can kind of see your point though, because if a skater *intended* to do a CCoSp but only ended up doing CoSp then they wouldn't get any base value points in the SP if a change of foot was required (which it is at the Junior and Senior levels).
    Similarly, what about a combination jump that is too flawed on the first jump for a second jump to count? E.g., fall, step out, etc. Should the skater get credit for a rotated triple first jump, with -GOE? Or should s/he get no credit at all because the combination was not executed?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Similarly, what about a combination jump that is too flawed on the first jump for a second jump to count? E.g., fall, step out, etc. Should the skater get credit for a rotated triple first jump, with -GOE? Or should s/he get no credit at all because the combination was not executed?
    No. Yes. Just like a 4/1, a 2/2, and a 3/1 should get no credit when the requirement is that one jump is a 3 or higher and the other jump is a 2 or higher, or in the case of solo 3's or higher preceded by steeps if the jump is a double or lower or has no steps preceding it or is << or there is a required jump and it is performed as a single or isn't the designated jump, shouldbe treated, IMO.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #91
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    Get rid of 1/4 cheating is allowed rule. Skaters are already getting benefit of doubt from judges. With this rule (+ benefit of doubt) some visible cheated jumps did get away. For example Asada's some jumps, Lipntiskaia's some jumps in CoR, Wagner's combination...

    4T+3T and 3lutz should get more points than 4T and 3lutz+3T. At least in short program.

    Choreographic lift in ice dance should get GOE only for choreographic purpose. No speed, no fast rotation should be awarded. (They were awarded in other lifts) I can't believe some beautiful choreography lifts never getting good GOE, but some normal lifts with no connection of the dance (like Zoueva teams did this year) awarded with super GOE. Next year we are only going to see spread eagle from man, a basic position from lady, no connections to choreography lifts from all teams.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    We could just get rid of live competitions altogether, and have the skaters send in the videos that they've edited together. There could be five different soundtracks, so that the judges could pick their preferred music.
    I like this one
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  13. #93

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    Can we change all the judges?
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Can we change all the judges?
    Give the judges a drug test after the competition!!!!!

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Can we change all the judges?
    So you want to change all the judges? I don't mind if someone else who thinks they knows better wants to take on my volunteer role. Might give me a break.

    Then those who complain can be the ones complained about.

    It doesn't matter who the judges are, people will still complain about the judging.
    Last edited by Aussie Willy; 02-05-2014 at 09:22 PM.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  16. #96
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    Something that really really needs to happen:

    The maximum number of elements eligible for the 10% bonus is 2 in the Short Program and 4 in the Free Skating.

    Aussie Willy, please get the Australian Fed to try to get that onto the agenda for the next congress or something.

    That bonus was supposed to reward balanced element layout. As things stand now, it's rewarding back-loading.

    There are 7 jumps in Ladies FS, 8 in Men FS and 8 jumps and lifts in Pairs FS so capping it at 4 would mean 50% (well a bit more for Ladies).
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-08-2014 at 08:30 AM.

  17. #97
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    - Zayak or combo rule: Don't kick out an entire element but just reduce it to the one allowed.
    e.g.
    The third 3T: counted as a jump of base value of 2T.
    The 4th combination : counted as a base value of the first jump only

    - Dance to introduce choreo-step sequence, and reduce number of lifts (they're way too many now!)

    - Singles and Pairs to have one fewer spins and introduce a choreo-element (could be anything: quad or MITF )

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Get rid of 1/4 cheating is allowed rule. Skaters are already getting benefit of doubt from judges. With this rule (+ benefit of doubt) some visible cheated jumps did get away. For example Asada's some jumps, Lipntiskaia's some jumps in CoR, Wagner's combination...

    I agree. At the very least the judges should get trained more and forced to really reduce the GOE for underrotated jumps even when they don't get the < and reduction in the basemark.
    Also make sure that the judges are able to detect when a skater has no footwork preceding the solo jump in the SP so that appropriate minus GOEs are given out.


    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    4T+3T and 3lutz should get more points than 4T and 3lutz+3T. At least in short program.

    I agree. It is ridiculous that skaters who have the more difficult 4T in combo don't get any advantage over skaters with the way easier 3L-3T combo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Something that really really needs to happen:

    The maximum number of elements eligible for the 10% bonus is 2 in the Short Program and 4 in the Free Skating.

    I would do away with the 10% bonus compltely. It was a good idea at the beginning of CoP but in the actual competition it doesnt work at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Can we change all the judges?

    Call me crazy but I would change all the judges. No more judges send from different federation who all have their own agenda. Make them paid ISU judges who are not under the influence of the federations and force them to judge independant of any skater's nationality.

  19. #99

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    Any suggestions on how people who wantt to be paid isu judges would qualify and be hired for that job?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Any suggestions on how people who wantt to be paid isu judges would qualify and be hired for that job?

    Of course by going through tests. They have to show beforehand that they understand the judging system (lots of current judges ATM don't) and can prove that they can judge independent from the skater's nationality.

    Please don't ask me how that can be done in detail. I know that my propositions are utopic.

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