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  1. #81

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    any infos when the german worlds team will be announced officially? eislauffan?

    i think men, ladies and dance spots should be quite obvious, but is there any chance, that vartmann/van cleave might get that ticket to worlds?
    (at least i can hope)

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    By the way: a question for the insiders of the german figure skating: does anyone know, how Wende/ Wende (with Fajfr as coach) are funded?? I´m just curious, because Daniel (and Mailyn) is in the german army, right? How can it be that S/S (or just Robin) aren´t anymore??
    Yes, Maylin and Daniel Wende are in the German army and they also receive funding from the German Federation.

    Robin Szolkowy was kicked out of the German army when he refused to leave his coach Ingo Steuer. Aliona Savchenko never was in the army, because she only received German citizenship just before the 2006 Olympic Winter Games when the whole trouble with Ingo started.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeschke View Post
    any infos when the german worlds team will be announced officially? eislauffan?

    i think men, ladies and dance spots should be quite obvious, but is there any chance, that vartmann/van cleave might get that ticket to worlds?
    (at least i can hope)
    AFAIK, Savchenko/Szolkowy and Wende/Wende are nominated for the team, and Vartmann/van Cleave are substitutes.

  4. #84

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    Looking at both men's past activities, I'm having a hard time following the reasoning for not funding anyone who trains with Steuer while funding skaters who train with Fajfr.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Looking at both men's past activities, I'm having a hard time following the reasoning for not funding anyone who trains with Steuer while funding skaters who train with Fajfr.
    You can't possibly understand that. They just forced a guy into early retirement; he was on the police force and had bought child porn (photos). He paid a sum of money to the court and that was his punishment. The right and wrong of that belongs in the "Politically Incorrect" section of this board but it explains why they fund one coach and not the other.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    Yes, Maylin and Daniel Wende are in the German army and they also receive funding from the German Federation.

    Robin Szolkowy was kicked out of the German army when he refused to leave his coach Ingo Steuer. Aliona Savchenko never was in the army, because she only received German citizenship just before the 2006 Olympic Winter Games when the whole trouble with Ingo started.
    Thank you Eislauffan!

    I just asked, because the german ministry is willing to pay the Fajfr skater (and god forbid I´m not against that, instead I´m happy for W/W) despite his dark past, but I think it´s sort of unfair for S/S

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    You can't possibly understand that. They just forced a guy into early retirement; he was on the police force and had bought child porn (photos). He paid a sum of money to the court and that was his punishment. The right and wrong of that belongs in the "Politically Incorrect" section of this board but it explains why they fund one coach and not the other.
    That's not true. Fajfr was found guilty in 12 cases (without counting several estimated numbers of unknown cases) of child abuse and sexual abuse during his time as a coach in Stuttgart.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Looking at both men's past activities, I'm having a hard time following the reasoning for not funding anyone who trains with Steuer while funding skaters who train with Fajfr.
    Exactly my thoughts when I was asking that question

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    AFAIK, Savchenko/Szolkowy and Wende/Wende are nominated for the team, and Vartmann/van Cleave are substitutes.
    thanks for your rapid answer

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    I just asked, because the german ministry is willing to pay the Fajfr skater (and god forbid I´m not against that, instead I´m happy for W/W) despite his dark past, but I think it´s sort of unfair for S/S
    To me it was even more unfair that Robin had to leave the army because he refused to give up Ingo Steuer as a coach. So Robin was punished for his coach's action in the distant past. That looks like "clan liability". Robin and Aliona are the most successful German skaters in many, many years, yet they could not be in the army (the German support system for high level athletes) while skaters with far less success, that didn't even make it to Europeans or Worlds, are funded as members of the army.

    As for Karel Fajfr, he did wrong, he was punished for it but after his punishment he was able to return to coaching and nothing has happened since. But yes, his crime seems worse to me than Ingo Steuer's crime, plus Ingo's wrongdoing had nothing to do with him coaching athletes, yet he is de facto banned from working with German skaters unless they can afford paying for him themselves. But hopefully the new NOC president will change something.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    To me it was even more unfair that Robin had to leave the army because he refused to give up Ingo Steuer as a coach. So Robin was punished for his coach's action in the distant past. That looks like "clan liability". Robin and Aliona are the most successful German skaters in many, many years, yet they could not be in the army (the German support system for high level athletes) while skaters with far less success, that didn't even make it to Europeans or Worlds, are funded as members of the army.

    As for Karel Fajfr, he did wrong, he was punished for it but after his punishment he was able to return to coaching and nothing has happened since. But yes, his crime seems worse to me than Ingo Steuer's crime, plus Ingo's wrongdoing had nothing to do with him coaching athletes, yet he is de facto banned from working with German skaters unless they can afford paying for him themselves. But hopefully the new NOC president will change something.
    I couldn´t agree more!
    We can´t be the only (and the first ones) who compare these two cases. Karel Fajfrs case was controversially discussed, when Anette Dytrt chose him as a coach.
    I remember clearly, that people were OK with it after a short time, as long as he doesn´t coach young underaged girls. Now he coaches Pröls/ Blommaert, and everyone is OK with that too. I mean, he seems to be rehabilitated completely from his past, I can´t see a single reason why Ingo shouldn´t be as well.
    Last edited by Irish-Angel; 03-02-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    That's not true. Fajfr was found guilty in 12 cases (without counting several estimated numbers of unknown cases) of child abuse and sexual abuse during his time as a coach in Stuttgart.
    I was talking about the most recent controversy with the BKA (German national police) guy. It's yet another example as to how that kind of crime is treated in Germany and used it to explain why someone like Fajfr would receive funding and someone like Steuer wouldn't. Simply because something's wrong in our system but, as I said, that belongs in another part of this board.

  13. #93
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    I'm probably sounding like I've living under a rock - skating concerned -: how are S/S making a living for themselves and paying for Ingo?
    Given the situation and the personal relationship between the three of them, which seems to be really good, is Ingo even asking for money, or is he living off his own (that is if, he has his own)?
    Are they not founded by Germany just with regards to their coach, of, say, also for ice time, costumes, equipments?
    And what about the travelling (their travelling and Ingo's)?

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    They have got a sponsor (Thomas Lloyd) and they skate at shows like "Art on Ice".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    I was talking about the most recent controversy with the BKA (German national police) guy. It's yet another example as to how that kind of crime is treated in Germany and used it to explain why someone like Fajfr would receive funding and someone like Steuer wouldn't. Simply because something's wrong in our system but, as I said, that belongs in another part of this board.
    Whoops I got got you wrong there, I thought you were referring to Fajfr as well
    Last edited by Irish-Angel; 03-03-2014 at 12:53 PM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by loulou View Post
    I'm probably sounding like I've living under a rock - skating concerned -: how are S/S making a living for themselves and paying for Ingo?
    Given the situation and the personal relationship between the three of them, which seems to be really good, is Ingo even asking for money, or is he living off his own (that is if, he has his own)?
    Are they not founded by Germany just with regards to their coach, of, say, also for ice time, costumes, equipments?
    And what about the travelling (their travelling and Ingo's)?
    That's a pretty good question, although I can only tell some things I know:
    a lot of things like traveling is supported by their sponsors. Ice time (with summer ice) is shouldered by the city of Chemnitz.
    As it goes for their costumes: I think Aliona does the creative part on her own.
    S/S athletic coach is Alionas father
    Choreography is completely by Ingo, programs like "When winter comes" were often performed by Andre Rieu, a friend of Ingo. Don´t ask me who is paying that
    All facts combined, they are pretty much "a self made" pair.

    I think now, that they are an established word class pair, things go smoother for them. With the money they win on trophys, and the money they gain on ice shows, they should come around. Are they getting rich or even appropriate payment for their work? Definitely not

    Here is a very interesting article dealing with their startup time, mentioning the financial problems they had to deal with in the beginning:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/2007/07/m...-accomplished/

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Looking at both men's past activities, I'm having a hard time following the reasoning for not funding anyone who trains with Steuer while funding skaters who train with Fajfr.
    Me too. Fajfr would be barred from coaching for life here.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by care bear View Post
    They have got a sponsor (Thomas Lloyd) and they skate at shows like "Art on Ice".
    I knew about shows. And I assumed they might have had sponsors. But aside from skating expenses, the two (three) of them have to pay for housing, food, clothing, laptops, cell phones, cell phone plans, possiblly a vacation once a year, movie and pizza, and everything that goes into a normal living, that is usually sustained by income, or, in some cases, family money. And I doubt sponsor and shows together would cover all that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    Whole post
    Thanks a lot for your answer!


    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    As it goes for their costumes: I think Aliona does the creative part on her own.
    That part is easy to believe, she's incredible!


    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    All facts combined, they are pretty much "a self made" pair.
    Maybe that's whay I love them so much.
    And maybe, possibly, that's why they've always been the ones who think outside the box: they didn't have the funding to think inside the box.
    Blessings in disguise, both for them and for us (us fans, I mean).

  19. #99
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    [/QUOTE]Maybe that's whay I love them so much.
    And maybe, possibly, that's why they've always been the ones who think outside the box: they didn't have the funding to think inside the box.
    Blessings in disguise, both for them and for us (us fans, I mean).[/QUOTE]

    You´re welcome
    I´ve never considered it from the positive side , maybe you´re right and it is that what makes them even more unique
    But still their uniqueness could have been paid better .....
    Last edited by Irish-Angel; 03-03-2014 at 10:49 PM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    I couldn´t agree more!
    We can´t be the only (and the first ones) who compare these two cases. Karel Fajfrs case was controversially discussed, when Anette Dytrt chose him as a coach.
    I remember clearly, that people were OK with it after a short time, as long as he doesn´t coach young underaged girls. Now he coaches Pröls/ Blommaert, and everyone is OK with that too. I mean, he seems to be rehabilitated completely from his past, I can´t see a single reason why Ingo shouldn´t be as well.
    I'm not OK with it. Both from the perspective she's a young girl and from the fact she/they could be so much more with Ingo as her coach. It grieves me to think of what could be and likely won't.

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