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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post




    IK,R? Like she's going to ditch the guitar solo performed by the incredible, immeasurable, incomparable Dave Gilmour.

    The only part of her SP music the bugs me is the addition of the violins in the second half of the program. You don't take one of the most iconic songs by one of the greatest rock bands of all time and futz with it.
    ITA with this 100%.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    The team event!
    If USFS has any self-preservation, they will go with Gold for SP and Edmunds for the FS, given Wagner's skates at Nationals.

    (Sorry, just totally derailed the thread and opened Pandora's box but couldn't help myself )

  3. #43
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    I think Gold should skate her SP as IMO it is the best SP of the 3 ladies. As to free skate, Wagner could be in good shape by then and her S&D is a great program. I just don't want to see Edmunds' FS twice.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Their split wasn't particularly amicable so probably not.
    I have heard this before. What happened? Can someone explain?
    The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are--Joseph Campbell

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    I have heard this before. What happened? Can someone explain?
    IIRC, Wagner changed some choreo without Mills' approval or involvement and he got pissed off his work was butchered like that.

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    Thanks, Ziggy!!
    The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are--Joseph Campbell

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    Change the SP too. Or at least re-cut the music, remove that screeching guitar solo section during the combo spin.
    There's not a thing wrong with Ashley's SP. You don't know much about Pink Floyd - that guitar riff is classic! And I suspect that at least some of the judges are from the 'Floyd' generation.
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 01-22-2014 at 07:29 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    IIRC, Wagner changed some choreo without Mills' approval or involvement and he got pissed off his work was butchered like that.
    I thought it was because she wanted to try something else and Mills was upset because the dismissal was abrupt? In any case, I thought letting go of Mills was a mistake then and it has come back to bite her...
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    IIRC, Wagner changed some choreo without Mills' approval or involvement and he got pissed off his work was butchered like that.
    I didn't hear this and I am doubtful. Since Mills was part coach and part choreographer for her, he got to see her practice every day and I would be surprised if he missed seeing her practicing something new. The version of S&D that she did at Worlds and WTT was similar to what she said all season. The only changes made throughout the season was the choreographic sequence - but surely such a change wouldn't go unnoticed by Mills / Nicks?!

    What Wagner said was she wanted to go with another choreographer in the Olympic season and Mills got pissed and announced the split without notifying her. I think she may want to keep him as a part coach and just go with a new choreographer but apparently he was totally offended that he didn't want anything to do with her anymore.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    There's not a thing wrong with Ashley's SP.
    I think that the way her movement is choreographed reflects the character of the music really well. It's a very good program.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    If USFS has any self-preservation, they will go with Gold for SP and Edmunds for the FS, given Wagner's skates at Nationals.

    This is totally fair but I doubt USFS would leave Wagner off the Team Event for a much more untested skater. I guess we shall see.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    This is totally fair but I doubt USFS would leave Wagner off the Team Event for a much more untested skater. I guess we shall see.
    They will probably either have Gold skate both programs or have Gold skate one and Wagner the other. They will surely want to rationalise Wagner being selected and will not want to give any more ammunition to people outraged about the way the selection has gone down.

    I guess it'll all depend on the bigger picture as only 2 substitutions can be made.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I didn't hear this and I am doubtful. Since Mills was part coach and part choreographer for her, he got to see her practice every day and I would be surprised if he missed seeing her practicing something new. The version of S&D that she did at Worlds and WTT was similar to what she said all season. The only changes made throughout the season was the choreographic sequence - but surely such a change wouldn't go unnoticed by Mills / Nicks?!

    What Wagner said was she wanted to go with another choreographer in the Olympic season and Mills got pissed and announced the split without notifying her. I think she may want to keep him as a part coach and just go with a new choreographer but apparently he was totally offended that he didn't want anything to do with her anymore.
    This is what I remember as well.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I hope by keeping sections of R&J she meant transitions into spins and the choreographic sequence etc.

    I would imagine Wilson would be exclusively booked by Yuna at this stage of the season, and the Wagner / Mills split was not amicable, so I wonder who would help with putting it together. Nicks?!
    She works with Nadia Kanaeva who choreographed both of Nathan Chen's programs, so I'm guessing she will be helping..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I didn't hear this and I am doubtful. Since Mills was part coach and part choreographer for her, he got to see her practice every day and I would be surprised if he missed seeing her practicing something new. The version of S&D that she did at Worlds and WTT was similar to what she said all season. The only changes made throughout the season was the choreographic sequence - but surely such a change wouldn't go unnoticed by Mills / Nicks?!

    What Wagner said was she wanted to go with another choreographer in the Olympic season and Mills got pissed and announced the split without notifying her. I think she may want to keep him as a part coach and just go with a new choreographer but apparently he was totally offended that he didn't want anything to do with her anymore.
    I was pretty sure that she changed something without working it out with him and he got angry that the integrity of his work was compromised. But I don't have a link at hand and maybe my memory is playing tricks on me (this is why witness statements are so unreliable ). Thanks for the additional info.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiChibi View Post
    She works with Nadia Kanaeva who choreographed both of Nathan Chen's programs, so I'm guessing she will be helping..
    Chen used to have so many transitions and such interesting programs in the past until Kanaeva brought him over to generic-land.

  16. #56
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    I think it's a bold move, and a move that will pay off if she skates well. Her SP stands out, it's one of the best this year. I think she will get the PCS and position herself well if clean, it's the long that's been letting her down.

    Looking back at Samson & Delilah's history, it started off with a bang and very good PCS then fizzled off throughout the season. It only had the one initial bang, another bang was due at GPF, Nationals, or Worlds for this program and it didn't happen. Therefore, judges will reward a clean performance (they haven't gotten to at a big event this year). could be a benefit like Stolbova/Klimov's "Addams Family" turned out to be the 2nd year. I wanted Black Swan most but strategically speaking, she knocked that program out of the park at 2012 Worlds so the judges have already rewarded it at a big event.

    It's powerful music, it will stand out in a great way among all of these slower, drab choices. It's one of the most crowd friendly music choices out there, it's all attack in the end when she's tired. I think a fresh clean skate of this program could bring the house down, but she can't skate scared or tentative. In a lot of ways just making the team for her was the hurdle emotionally, I really hope to see her attack more than any of the ladies in Sochi.

  17. #57
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    Looking forward to seeing the debut of Romeo & Delilah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Siouxs View Post
    Looking forward to seeing the debut of Romeo & Delilah.
    Or Romson & Julilah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alj5 View Post
    Or Romson & Julilah?
    Do you have gum in your mouth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lahaa968 View Post
    I believe she was referring to the general set up of the program, element wise--in particular the jumps. That said, S&D and R&J have virtually the same jump layout:

    S&D: 3F+C, 2A+C, 3S, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3Lo+C, 3F
    R&J: 3F+3T, 2A, 3S, 3Lo+2A, 3Lz, 3Lo, 3F+2T+2T

    I'm guessing she will keep the same layout as R&J, e.g. do the 3Lo+2A first, followed by solo 3Lo after 3Lz.

    I'm happy for her; I think it will help her mentally. I will say though that the one technical weakness of S&D was the StSq. She received Level 2 more than once, never a Level 4. I though R&J's step sequence was much stronger and more complex, and I don't think she ever got below a Level 3. Maybe Raf can help out?
    What does the 'C' stand for? I've never seen that abbreviation before.

    Quote Originally Posted by lahaa968 View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...#ixzz2r5aSPtEZ

    "She will keep portions of the “Romeo and Juliet” choreography because it has become familiar to her through repetition."

    I dunno y'all...transplanted choreo sounds a lil messy.
    Yikes. This could be a good thing. Or it could be a bad thing. And mashing different choreo together doesn't sound good to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by lahaa968 View Post
    She said the new program “is a Frankenstein of a program,” in that it is pieced together from last season’s program, parts of her “Romeo and Juliet” program and some moves done at different stages than they were before.
    “The general setup of it is ‘Romeo and Juliet,’ but we took pieces from ‘Samson and Delilah’ that I really liked, and I liked the character at those moments and we kind of placed them in methodically,” she said.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...#ixzz2r5bUkpdD



    That said, go big or go home...high risk high reward.
    I'm getting that yucky feeling in my tummy again. And I'd love to know what the two choreographers (David Wilson, Phillip Mills) that created these two different programs are thinking..I wonder if Ashley's bio will be updated to credit both for this 'Frankenstein FS'. Mills will probably be fuming but what does this say to Wilson? That his choreo just wasn't good enough? Or that Ashley just wasn't good enough to pull it off? Or that it was just the wrong fit for Ashley - which again falls back on Wilson..

    Quote Originally Posted by lahaa968 View Post
    Shizuka Arakawa changed her FP weeks before Torino, and actually reworked some of the choreography/layout (since the original, from 2003-2004, was under 6.0). And she won!

    Also, Sarah Hughes changed the later half of her FP between US Nationals and SLC from Rach. 2 to the finale of Daphnis and Chloe.

    Stephane Lambiel changed his free program and re-choreo'd a new one three weeks before the...2005 WC? The King Arthur program.
    Shizuka and Sarah were more accomplished than Ashley going into their respective Olympics - both were World medallists. And for their day they had far more firepower jump-wise than Ashley too which helped them win their respective Olympic titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I didn't hear this and I am doubtful. Since Mills was part coach and part choreographer for her, he got to see her practice every day and I would be surprised if he missed seeing her practicing something new. The version of S&D that she did at Worlds and WTT was similar to what she said all season. The only changes made throughout the season was the choreographic sequence - but surely such a change wouldn't go unnoticed by Mills / Nicks?!

    What Wagner said was she wanted to go with another choreographer in the Olympic season and Mills got pissed and announced the split without notifying her. I think she may want to keep him as a part coach and just go with a new choreographer but apparently he was totally offended that he didn't want anything to do with her anymore.
    TSL's take on the Wagner-Mills split: http://www.theskatinglesson.com/this...r-mills-split/

    ...Phillip Mills indicated that the chasm occurred over choreography. He believes his work needs to be kept in its original form, as he does not wish to make changes to the work of others. While this raises all sorts of questions about what actually happened, the reality is troubling for Wagner’s prospects. One of the benefits of having a coach who is also a choreographer, is that there are daily touch ups and reinforcements of the choreography. Prior to their work together, Wagner was not known as an artistic skater. Together, Mills and Wagner created a unique identity on the ice. The daily work on her style and skating did wonders for her artistic transformation.
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 01-22-2014 at 07:38 AM.

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