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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    ^Wait, I know Rockne retired, but maybe he can be coaxed out of retirement for Marissa. Shouldn't he be pick #1 for her, if indeed Simon cannot continue?
    Speroff is two years younger, and already in Boston. Surely someone should be trying to talk him out of retiring.

  2. #82
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    I like Kayne and O'Shea but I don't think they have the same refinement as Donlan and Speroff had. I also hope that they work hard on improving their 3twist which I think is their weakest element. I think Scimieca and Knierim will be the team to beat.

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    I don't know, I find it hard to imagine Marissa with Speroff. They're such different skaters. Marissa is fiery and intense, Andrew seems more laid back and less competitive. I think Rockne & Marissa might have been a good match in ability and expression, but it was posted upthread that Rockne is retiring.

  4. #84
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    I can understand why Rockne wants to retire. He's had several partnerships in a row that haven't worked out, and he's entering his late 20's. It's too bad because he was probably the most charismatic male pairs skater the U.S. had.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    I can understand why Rockne wants to retire. He's had several partnerships in a row that haven't worked out, and he's entering his late 20's. It's too bad because he was probably the most charismatic male pairs skater the U.S. had.
    I wonder how Rockne would have fared as a singles skater. Does anyone know if he ever competed in singles at US Nats? The only downside would be that he doesn't always jump well.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I wonder how Rockne would have fared as a singles skater. Does anyone know if he ever competed in singles at US Nats?
    I believe he got as far as Sectionals several times at the Novice level but never advanced to Nationals before he switched full-time to pairs in 2004(?).

    ETA: Of the current Senior pair guys, John Coughlin and Nate Bartholomay previously qualified for Nationals in Junior and Novice singles, respectively, and Danny O'Shea was the 2008 Novice men's champion (all had triples through Lutz, IIRC).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-06-2014 at 05:30 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #87

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    Rockne retired, really? I missed that. I was wondering if he and Gretchen would work together. I too am very sorry about her split with Speroff. But despite her jump issues, she was the star of that pair IMO so I hope she is not quitting.

    Rockne's career has been so frustrating. He deserved better. That is not a comment on any of his partners, just his bad luck. And theirs, for that matter. Pairs is the hardest discipline.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippychick View Post
    I like Kayne and O'Shea but I don't think they have the same refinement as Donlan and Speroff had. I also hope that they work hard on improving their 3twist which I think is their weakest element. I think Scimieca and Knierim will be the team to beat.
    I think, though, that K/O are 'getting there'. The LP at 4CC's was fantastic and I'm happy they went after their weakest element, the 3twist, and fixed it (or drastically improved it). I think it will just take continued improvement / refinement overall and they could theoretically get to the point where they clinch a spot at Worlds, and even go higher from there; loads of potential

  9. #89

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    Love Kayne and O'Shea. Hope Marissa can find a new partner if Simon is out.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Rockne retired, really? I missed that. I was wondering if he and Gretchen would work together. I too am very sorry about her split with Speroff. But despite her jump issues, she was the star of that pair IMO so I hope she is not quitting.

    Rockne's career has been so frustrating. He deserved better. That is not a comment on any of his partners, just his bad luck. And theirs, for that matter. Pairs is the hardest discipline.
    I am kind of shocked by this considering how posters reacted when I said I thought it was sad that he only hooked up with Davis to make the Olympic team. I got told all about how "they are in it for the long haul" and "they knew they wouldn't make the team so there was no pressure on her" Now I wonder.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I believe he got as far as Sectionals several times at the Novice level but never advanced to Nationals before he switched full-time to pairs in 2004(?).

    ETA: Of the current Senior pair guys, John Coughlin and Nate Bartholomay previously qualified for Nationals in Junior and Novice singles, respectively, and Danny O'Shea was the 2008 Novice men's champion (all had triples through Lutz, IIRC).
    Do men generally have to qualify to sectionals? I didn't think there were enough to need regionals in most cases.


    Tim LeDuc also went to nationals as a Novice (2008). I don't think he went as a junior. I don't believe he ever got a consistent 3A, though he was working on them, and may have landed a few.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Tim LeDuc also went to nationals as a Novice (2008). I don't think he went as a junior. .
    Yes on both counts. Sorry, didn't mean to leave out LeDuc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Rockne retired, really? I missed that.
    It was posted as hearsay information earlier in this thread; it hasn't been publicly announced.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    Love Kayne and O'Shea. Hope Marissa can find a new partner if Simon is out.
    Are these just rumours? Has Rockne retired? Is Simon ending his skating career? And if so, might Marissa and Rockne team up?

    Okay Sylvia, I see your post. I do hope that Rockne has not retired. If Simon is ending his career, it would be interesting to see if Rockne and Marissa could gel.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Are these just rumours? Has Rockne retired? Is Simon ending his skating career? And if so, might Marissa and Rockne team up?

    Okay Sylvia, I see your post. I do hope that Rockne has not retired. If Simon is ending his career, it would be interesting to see if Rockne and Marissa could gel.
    It would be on paper a better match than either Castelli / Shnapir and Davis / Brubaker. For Brubaker, Castelli has more presence, fearlessness, and confidence on the ice than Davis, and while both have problems on jumps and throws, I would assume Castelli has a better track record. They would probably have to forget the Throw Quad, though, and Marissa would have to learn another triple throw jump. Also, she would have to take time to adjust to a big change in height of her partner, but this would be a good move for the SBS spins

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    It would be on paper a better match than either Castelli / Shnapir and Davis / Brubaker. For Brubaker, Castelli has more presence, fearlessness, and confidence on the ice than Davis, and while both have problems on jumps and throws, I would assume Castelli has a better track record. They would probably have to forget the Throw Quad, though, and Marissa would have to learn another triple throw jump. Also, she would have to take time to adjust to a big change in height of her partner, but this would be a good move for the SBS spins
    I think Castelli is probably the best pairs girl the US has ever had or at least in a decade and Rockne at his peak was the most talneted guy. But I don't think that means they'd necessarily be successful at this stage. Maybe years ago but he's on the literal ninth life his career after three failed pairings and two missed Olympic berths. With a C/B pairing, the huge, expolosive throws would not be the same, the crazy high twist and the big impressive lifts would be gone. Those are huge parts of what makes her so awesome to watch and I feel like Simon never gets enough credit for that. Their SBS spins which admittedly were a bit of a trainwreck in the 2012-2013 season were actually really good at Nationals and pretty solid at the Olympics. So I don't think that's reason to throw in the towel on an eight year partnership where both partners were able to train close to home that's resulted into two National titles, an Olympic bronze and a top 9 finish at the Olympics. And while I certainly have never skated pairs, it seems like it might be hard after all those years of being accustomed to and working with a massive height difference to get used to a significantly shorter partner. And as much potential as Rockne had, I think its time for him to move on. The Olympics weren't in the cards in 2010 or 2014 and I highly doubt he's going to make the team for the first time at 32.

    If Simon wants to retire and Marissa wants to continue, then I really hope she does but I think her best chance for more national titles and some internatonal success is with him rather than starting over. Denney & Coughlin may have been able to jump right up to the top by partner switching but I think there's more depth in US pairs now and it would be hard for a new team to just leapfrog S/K, Z/B, K/O. Rockne certainly wasn't able to do it post Mary Beth although I suppose Lindsay was a weaker partner. And I don't see C/S ditching each other at this point unless one partner is really done. Worlds wasn't great but they more than exceeded expectations at the Olympics. Their SP in the pairs event was world class and IMO underscored relative to the numbers that were thrown around later.

    And besides, I think people are putting a little too much stock in one off handed comment from Trankov- they both seemed to indicate on the Today Show that they'd love another Olympics if they could. I expect to see them next year but I don't think we've gotten any real reliable indicators either way yet.
    Last edited by lauren329; 04-08-2014 at 04:56 PM.

  16. #96

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    ^^I agree with your post, Lauren. I think your analysis is correct. Yes, if it were 5 years ago, Castelli/Brubaker might have been an interesting matchup. But with Rockne now 27, soon to be 28, it's pretty late for him to start a new partnership. Especially since, as you point out, he's never actually achieved real international success. It was one thing for Trankov to start a partnership w/Tatiana at 26; that was worth the try because they were both successful internationally with separate partners. Rockne has never gotten to that point, and it doesn't look like he ever will. The potential was there, but there were too many missed opportunities along the way. This past season, he was just going through the motions with Davis. And now with him engaged to Stefania, I think it's time to move on, and it sounds like he's realized that too.

    Rockne & Marissa might have been a good match artistically. However, there would have been downsides to the partnership as well. Like you said, her lifts & throws would never be anywhere near as big with Rockne. And I also don't know if she & Rockne would have been the best match in terms of personality. Some people have said Rockne is a rather difficult, demanding partner. I can't see that working well with Marissa. Granted, she & Simon have had their issues, but they seem to have found their way to a workable relationship.

    I agree the best thing is for Marissa & Simon to stay together and continue. I really hope they will! But the fact is, they've made no comment on their future plans, so that makes me wonder.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    I agree the best thing is for Marissa & Simon to stay together and continue. I really hope they will! But the fact is, they've made no comment on their future plans, so that makes me wonder.
    I think the 9th at the Olympics is the best they could do and probably their ceiling internationally(in the 8th-10th in the World range). Bottom line is that Simon is not as strong of a skater or competitor as Marissa. They are never going to be classically well matched; it will never look effortless. Simon never looks fully comfortable when he skates and compensating for their large size difference really impacts basics like stroking. Also Simon is just never going to be a consistent jumper.

    I imagine Marissa will continue and find another partner. There are some interesting options out there. Speroff and LeDuc come to mind.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    There are some interesting options out there. Speroff and LeDuc come to mind.
    Did Leng and LeDuc split?
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  19. #99

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    Just watching the TSL worlds recap right now--Dave thinks Marissa should pair up with LeDuc. I think that would be a better option than Speroff. As I said upthread, I just don't see Marissa & Andrew as a pair. Their skating styles seem too different. Speroff reminds me of Todd Sand, he has that sort of classic leading man/premier danseur look. Marissa, although great, is not particularly balletic/classical in style. And Speroff's jumps aren't that great, either. I haven't seen enough of LeDuc to judge if they might work or not. At least he would be closer to Simon's height; Speroff is half a foot shorter.

    While I agree that Marissa & Simon are never going to be "classically well matched," I do think they have the potential to go higher at Worlds. I mean, come on, with people like Sui/Han placing 4th in the short . . . and even Duhamel/Radford, who in my personal opinion are no more classically matched than Marissa & Simon, and no more artistically satisfying to watch, either. They're just more consistent, and have harder jumps . . . My personal feeling is that Marissa & Simon could potentially sneak in for a World medal at some point this quad, IF everything fell into place. But that won't happen with Simon doubling jumps all over the place.

    I agree with Lauren that Marissa is one of the best pairs girls we've had in a long time; I think she's one of the best in the world. I just want to see her succeed. If Simon can heal his injury and really commit to going for it, fine. If Simon wants to retire and she can secure another suitable partner quickly, I'm fine with that too. But I don't want to see her split with Simon until she has a good plan B, i.e, a really good partner in place to take over from him.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Did Leng and LeDuc split?
    I don't believe they have decided whether or not to continue together. I do really like them and hope they continue. If not, I think LeDuc is a real catch. He has it all and has spent time with some inconsistent partners, but if you look back at his personal sbs jump record, it's pretty impressive.

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