View Poll Results: Should US World and Olympic Team Placements Be Made After 4CC?

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  • Yes

    13 28.26%
  • No

    33 71.74%
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  1. #21
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    "The distances are long from Australia too, and from Asia when the event is held in North America. "

    I actually looked up the Australia travel times too (they are worse than most US) but then realized this thread was only about the US.
    Would putting nationals in December penalize a skater who made GPF? (Loss of training time, dealing with her lag) or even prevent them from going? You might say GPF skaters get automatic 4CC entry but in good years that could be very limiting.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    I say if you are a Russian, (where your skaters have a minimal travel requirement to get to Euros) it is your business.

    If like me you happen to be an American then a fairly judged Natls is all we have ever needed to pick our Olympic team.

    As an American I shudder at Pat S tPiseev's directive to silence our senior elite skaters for talking about their feelings.

    Gracie, Polina and Mirai skated their way onto the Olympic team at Natls.

    Ashley should have been a Russian where such a favorable placements would have been the norm.

    Forget Mirai leaving to skate for Japan, it is Ashley who should go skate somewhere else. Her name sounds German so maybe they would be happy to make her something she is not in USA.
    FYI Mirai is not on the team, so she actually did not skate her way onto it. Ashley is actually on the team.
    Last edited by UGG; 01-16-2014 at 11:17 PM.

  3. #23

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    Having 4CC before Nationals makes even less sense, because it would be sandwiched between GPF and Nationals---right during the holidays (and therefore, Japanese nationals). That wouldn't work.

    USFS uses Nationals as the selection for 4CC. In an Olympic year, Olympic-bound skaters DO NOT go to 4CC because it is more important for them to practice than to travel and lose practice time due to jet lag.

    I realize that many of the suggestions that 4CC be used as a skate-off are being made by Mirai fans who hope that somehow Mirai would push Polina or Ashley or Gracie off the Olympic team, but the reality is that is not going to happen.

    I just hope Mirai is practicing and will skate well at 4CC and is not sulking and slacking off.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Having 4CC before Nationals makes even less sense, because it would be sandwiched between GPF and Nationals---right during the holidays (and therefore, Japanese nationals). That wouldn't work.
    Which is why my point was that US Nationals should be moved to some time in December when most other ISU Nationals are held.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    FYI Mirai is not on the team, so she actually did not skate her way onto it. Ashley is actually on the team.
    If you think Ashley actually skated her way onto the team at Natls I won't argue with you it about it.

    You did see Natls ,and the scores, right?

    I hope Ash skates much, much better in Sochi. She will have the crowd behind her, no?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Which is why my point was that US Nationals should be moved to some time in December when most other ISU Nationals are held.
    I am not sure what the solution is but you are absolutely right. Having Natls a week before 4CC is a good example of the sheer stupidity we continue to see from US Skating.

    I think it makes good sense to move Natls up at least in Olympic years.

  7. #27
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    Worlds: Yes

    Olympics: No

    Ziggy, one thing to remember is that you wouldn't simply be moving Nationals, but the whole lead-up to Nationals with regional and sectional events having to be done earlier. It's not impossible, of course - nations like Russia and Japan have earlier events and they also have deep fields and/or geographic breadth. But it's certainly not just one event changing the schedule.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    I am not sure what the solution is but you are absolutely right. Having Natls a week before 4CC is a good example of the sheer stupidity we continue to see from US Skating.

    I think it makes good sense to move Natls up at least in Olympic years.
    Nationals was moved up this year. It is usually around the 24th. That's like 2 weeks earlier.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Worlds: Yes

    Olympics: No

    Ziggy, one thing to remember is that you wouldn't simply be moving Nationals, but the whole lead-up to Nationals with regional and sectional events having to be done earlier. It's not impossible, of course - nations like Russia and Japan have earlier events and they also have deep fields and/or geographic breadth. But it's certainly not just one event changing the schedule.
    Agreed. US has multiple levels of qualifying. Which starts in early October with regionals and continues into November with sectionals. December for US nationals is a nonstarter for reasons already mentioned by others, plus the fact that skaters in school (most of them) have end-of-term examinations going on, then Christmas holiday. There's nowhere except January to put US Nationals. I think people outside the USA sometimes forget that US Nationals doesn't just have the handful of well-known senior skaters that are byed directly into the competition, but a raft of other skaters representing 5 levels (Senior, Junior, Novice, Intermediate, Juvenile), nearly all of whom must start this competition journey in October.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchthis!! View Post
    If the ISU wants 4CC to gain the respect that the European Championships have...then yes. I wonder about the future of 4CC sometimes...it's like the bastard child of the skating world or something...
    I agree about the respect issue. It has almost become an afterthought right now but the schedule really gets tight late in the season, and in the Olympic season the distance becomes a big issue. In other years worlds is in late March, so the idea could work in those years.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    Agreed. US has multiple levels of qualifying. Which starts in early October with regionals and continues into November with sectionals. December for US nationals is a nonstarter for reasons already mentioned by others, plus the fact that skaters in school (most of them) have end-of-term examinations going on, then Christmas holiday. There's nowhere except January to put US Nationals. I think people outside the USA sometimes forget that US Nationals doesn't just have the handful of well-known senior skaters that are byed directly into the competition, but a raft of other skaters representing 5 levels (Senior, Junior, Novice, Intermediate, Juvenile), nearly all of whom must start this competition journey in October.
    Then start the qualifying competitions in September, problem solved.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Which is why my point was that US Nationals should be moved to some time in December when most other ISU Nationals are held.
    That just isn't going to happen. Where could Nationals fit? The week after GPF? The week before Christmas? This is the busiest time on the calendar in the US and also on the sports scene---no way can skating compete with football for TV time. Skating would lose the few sponsors it has. How do you think USFS can afford the venues for the event?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Then start the qualifying competitions in September, problem solved.
    Maybe for the elites, but this would be incredibly difficult scheduling for the juvenile, intermediate, and novice skaters who have to deal with school. Leaving at the beginning of the school year would be very difficult.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    That just isn't going to happen. Where could Nationals fit? The week after GPF? The week before Christmas? This is the busiest time on the calendar in the US and also on the sports scene---no way can skating compete with football for TV time. Skating would lose the few sponsors it has. How do you think USFS can afford the venues for the event?
    What about early in December?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    What about early in December?
    GPF

  16. #36
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    Last week of November?

  17. #37
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    With all of the new criteria actually being used is 4CC really necessary in selecting the Natl team? 4CC feels more like a senior B event especially in Olympic years.

    If anything US Skating may look at this season's 4CC results in the selection for the 2015 Worlds team. It certainly can be considered in a skater's body of work.

    The timing is always going to be a problem. Japan fairs better since Christmas is not a Natl holiday. The Russians fare better as well holding their natls earlier than we do since they celebrate Chistmas based on the Orthodox calendar.

    4CC is always going to present scheduling problems for USA and Canada. My best hope would be for 4CC to become an Asian/Oceana event and for someday a "Cup of the Americas" to emerge (if only we had more skating from Mexico, Argentina,Brazil, etc).

    To avoid the scheduling conflict it could be held at the start of the season, around the time the Japan Open is held.

    Just some thoughts and I don't see a way that 4CC as it currently exists will ever come close to carrying the importance of the Euro championships.

  18. #38

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    It is unfortunate that the North American Championships became so political that it died and was reborn as Skate Canada and Skate America.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Last week of November?
    Thanksgiving, a major US holiday, and it interferes with some major televised US football games.

    Related, keep in mind as well that US Nationals is often scheduled around ice/facility availability, with, in may venues, pro sports such as basketball and hockey taking priority. Then there is also the need to have the televised event not conflict with major US sports events - US Nationals is careful not to conflict with the Superbowl, for example, and the final games in the football playoffs.
    Use Yah Blinkah!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    Thanksgiving, a major US holiday.
    Also a MAJOR football time. They will not get TV money if they hold it on Thanksgiving, and I think they need the TV money to fund it!

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