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  1. #1

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    Has Zhulin Totally Lost His Mind?????

    Or is he deliberately sabotaging B/S???

    First, he changed both their programs 2 weeks before their first GP. He scrapped their SD entirely - I still dont know why. I saw it on YouTube. I didnt think it was great, but it did look different from a lot of them and I think it would have stood out if he had kept it. Then he changed the music for the FD, while trying to keep the choreography intact. If this isnt idiocy, I dont know what is. The skaters they were competing against had 2-3 months to prepare their programs. His team had 2 weeks.

    Then, when the FD is finally starting to come together for them - he pulls them out of Euros [mistake], totally scraps the program [I think an even bigger mistake], and decides to go back to last year's FD [the biggest mistake of all]. Ice dancers can't re-use old programs like singles can. Every team who's tried it in the past has been dinged by the judges. And Zhulin well knows this

    What on earth is he trying to do to them? If I were M/K I'd be very afraid.

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    Wait, he's making them go back to last year's FD? He wants them to get the kiss of death from the judges? What is he smoking?

    They can kiss that Oly bronze goodbye...

    He sure is giving a lot up to I/K; I know they're inconsistent but if they can deliver, the path has opened right up for them. Are we sure he dislikes them?

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    I know, right? I just can't for the life of me understand what he's thinking???? [or maybe drinking????]

    BTW, the information they are going back to old FD comes from Russia thread in GSD.

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    Very interesting stuff! Is it possible B/S themselves requested some of these changes? Don't they have some control if they don't agree with Zhulin's decisions?

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    Maybe Dmitri was simply too embarrassed to do this dance at the Olympics. I mean at the GPF they showed a replay of his ending "caw" the crowd just laughed. You know something isn't working there considering that this dance was supposed to be taken seriously.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #6

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    I wonder if Zhulin has regret not scrapping U&Z's 94 FD before the Olympics (although, I personally loved it). Maybe he's projecting? Heh.

    Zhulin had P&B switch FDs for 10 Worlds, and that was met with some success.

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    I can answer your first question, but after that you're on your own Zhulin said in an interview that Tarasova and the Russian powers that be hated the original programs. That they were all wrong and not Olympic worthy. But he really believed in the birds fd concept, so they changed the music to something better known and classical but kept the concept (splitting the baby if you will, and we know well that works).

    As for what's going on now? Who knows! The program and music has changed for each of their outings, but it's never really worked (no surprise there). If he was so committed to the concept, he should've worked on the original. Last year's fd? Really? Well I guess now we'll see how much political power Russia really has if they get a bronze with that. Or maybe the fed has dumped them and moved on to I/K now that they're getting it together...

    I don't think he hates them. Haha I think he has a team with limitations and he's trying to figure out how to work around those limits and has failed miserably this season. He knows by now everyone hates that bird dance and there's no time for a new program, hence the move back to last year's. Verdict = complete disaster. Poor B/S!

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    I know it's a really bad idea to repeat last year's dance, but they should still get the tech marks as per rule, right? They could lose some PCS but will they lose enough to really drop in the standings? In any case I didn't think they would win the bronze with the dance they had for GP, so what difference does it really make?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I know it's a really bad idea to repeat last year's dance, but they should still get the tech marks as per rule, right? They could lose some PCS but will they lose enough to really drop in the standings? In any case I didn't think they would win the bronze with the dance they had for GP, so what difference does it really make?
    That's true. I think COP has really changed things in that regard.
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    Had he been wise enough to scrap his 94 FD he would be an Olympic Gold medalist as a skater, not just a coach today. Although in this case I am not as sure it is as obviously as wise a move as the one he didnt make in 94.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I can answer your first question, but after that you're on your own Zhulin said in an interview that Tarasova and the Russian powers that be hated the original programs. That they were all wrong and not Olympic worthy. But he really believed in the birds fd concept, so they changed the music to something better known and classical but kept the concept (splitting the baby if you will, and we know well that works).
    If that is true, then I'm pissed beyond belief at Tarasova. I guess I shouldn't be surprised then that they are going back to last year's FD, since Tat had a hand in creating it. I guess the "It came to me one night" explanation that Zhulin originally offered might have been him being too embarrassed to admit he got pushed into changing it.

    Ugh, I *loved* the original version of this FD. Not just the music, but the choreography too. Even though the majority of the FD is the same, there are some choreographic details from the original version that I loved that got scrapped as well. All the original version needed was some polishing and maybe change the final lift to something that created a bit more impact/impression. Now B&S are going into the Olympics skating a FD they haven't skated in a year.

    And what about the footwork sequences? Are they going to start training the old ones again, or just stick the ones they were doing for this year's FD into the last year's music?

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    Is that really such a terrible choice, going back to last year's FD? This year's second one (I've never seen the first) was super weird, and they did win a world bronze with last year's FD..

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    Is that really such a terrible choice, going back to last year's FD? This year's second one (I've never seen the first) was super weird, and they did win a world bronze with last year's FD..
    In all honesty, if they actually skate it well and get the levels, I see no reason they couldn't still get bronze.

    After the freak trip Soloviev had at the GPF last year, the skated the FD conservatively at Euros and Worlds. If they are going to skate it again, I hope they don't hold back and skate it like I've seen them do in practice vids.

    If they do, and again get the levels, they very well could win bronze.

    I just hate that they are in this position.

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    Are we seeing more program switches by skaters this year than usual? Carolina switched both her programs. Gracie has gone through 3 SPs so far I think. In the past IIRC you may see one skater changing the planned program to something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maybe Dmitri was simply too embarrassed to do this dance at the Olympics. I mean at the GPF they showed a replay of his ending "caw" the crowd just laughed. You know something isn't working there considering that this dance was supposed to be taken seriously.
    They have to thinking of no matter how well they perform their bird dance it's just a huge huge joke and can't possibly share an Olympic podium with VMDW after d/s Vancouver embarrassment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Had he been wise enough to scrap his 94 FD he would be an Olympic Gold medalist as a skater

    "His"? You do realize he had a partner, so I doubt that anything about that program was his decision alone. And IIRC he certainly wasn't the dominant member of that pair.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    "His"? You do realize he had a partner, so I doubt that anything about that program was his decision alone. And IIRC he certainly wasn't the dominant member of that pair.
    I personally can't take my eyes off of him when I watch U/Z videos, but then I sort think he was hot back then (when dancing on the ice). Or maybe it was the tights he used to wear (before they banned them after 1992).
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And IIRC he certainly wasn't the dominant member of that pair.
    You dont remember correctly in this case if that is what you believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I know it's a really bad idea to repeat last year's dance, but they should still get the tech marks as per rule, right? They could lose some PCS but will they lose enough to really drop in the standings? In any case I didn't think they would win the bronze with the dance they had for GP, so what difference does it really make?
    In some ways, yes I agree about the tech mark. But I think they did have a shot at the bronze medal. If he hadnt fallen [her fault], Im not sure they wouldnt have got bronze at GPF. Live, their dance looked better than it did on TV. P/B might have won the FD, but B/S had a lead going in. It's moot now, but Im not certain what would have happened with a clean performance. I think that's why she was so upset.

    And far more is at stake for them than the Olympic medal [important as that is]. None of the Russian teams are retiring AFAIK. They are hoping to establish themselves clearly as Russia's No 1 team starting the next quad. Certainly an Olympic bronze would have helped do that. But finishing clearly better than I/K would also put them in a good position. Now I think bronze is gone, and chances are good the judges will put I/K securely ahead of them at Olympics and Worlds. And I blame Zhulin for this entire mess. Again - what was he thinking?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maybe Dmitri was simply too embarrassed to do this dance at the Olympics. I mean at the GPF they showed a replay of his ending "caw" the crowd just laughed. You know something isn't working there considering that this dance was supposed to be taken seriously.
    Wait that dance was supposed to be taken seriously? I actually enjoy it a lot mostly because I legit laugh out loud at the opening and the end, every time ... and sometimes the gunshot part in the middle, if I'm not totally zoned out and catch it (but I ALWAYS make sure I'm alert for the opening and end #bestparts).

    On a more serious note, I really feel bad for them if this is true - so soon before the Olympics, and this makes them look really unsure of themselves. In general, I don't like the idea of reusing past programs (for any discipline, but esp. ice dance), unless the program gets changed and fluffed up quite a bit or wasn't used very much initially. However, I will say though that I thought Pechalat/Bourzat's circus program that they brought back for Worlds one year (was it 2009 or the post-Oly worlds?) served them decently well - I distinctly remember one of the commentators saying it was smart for them to bring it back (or something to that effect). I really enjoyed that performance too. So ... I guess there are exceptions?

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