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  1. #201
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    Oh, concerning Nancy's statement that the FBI believed Tonya was the mastermind, I wanted to mention this. On Access Hollywood just last month, Nancy said something like: "I didn't want to believe that Tonya was involved. But the FBI told me, 'Well, we don't have any hard evidence, but we do this for a living, and we believe she knew [about the attack].'" This is consistent with what Nancy has always said, and she mentioned nothing about Tonya being the mastermind. For her to suddenly say that the FBI told her that they thought Tonya was the mastermind is a bit odd. During the NBC interview, could she have simply been misremembering what they had told her? I mean, it's been 20 years, so I guess that's possible at least.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Fever View Post
    I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that the effects will linger, even after someone has been taken out of an abusive environment. We're all products of our formative years.
    Yes, the effects will definitely linger. That's why overcoming an abusive environment can be incredibly difficult. And if the abuse is severe enough, you can't do it on your own but will need lots of outside help, assuming that you are even willing to try to overcome what happened to you. But that's the thing--abuse can change your personality to the point where you don't even want to try to change; instead, you just stay bitter and miserable.

  3. #203
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    The FBI comment sounds like a pretty standard investigation tactic. In any kind of case where it stems from conflict/jealousy/whatever between two camps (in this case, Kerrigan vs. Harding) FBI would want to cover all bases, so they'd want to fish stuff out of Nancy too. It's not exactly ethical, but they do this to get people out of their comfort zone. Maybe Nancy would have said that one time they were rooming together, Tonya said this or that. They want to know the possible history between the skaters beyond what the standard line is.

    It doesn't really matter anyway whether Tonya knew originally -- she admits that she found out about it and didn't contact investigators. So any moral highground she might have had from Giloolly and his goons is lost by that lack of action.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    The FBI comment sounds like a pretty standard investigation tactic. In any kind of case where it stems from conflict/jealousy/whatever between two camps (in this case, Kerrigan vs. Harding) FBI would want to cover all bases, so they'd want to fish stuff out of Nancy too. It's not exactly ethical, but they do this to get people out of their comfort zone. Maybe Nancy would have said that one time they were rooming together, Tonya said this or that. They want to know the possible history between the skaters beyond what the standard line is.
    Very interesting comment, but I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the FBI might have purposely lied and told Nancy that they thought Tonya was the mastermind just to fish some information out of her?

    And for good measure, here's the recent article in which Jeff acknowledges being the mastermind behind the attack. There's absolutely no reason he'd be saying that today if it were in fact true that Tonya herself had been the mastermind all along.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Kerrigan.html

    ‘She'll never be remembered for how wonderful a figure skater she was,’ he said. ‘She'll be remembered for what I talked her into doing.'

    she admits that she found out about it and didn't contact investigators. So any moral highground she might have had from Giloolly and his goons is lost by that lack of action.
    Well, if the only reason Tonya didn't report what she knew was that she truly believed her life was in danger, I think most folks could forgive her for that. Trouble is, that ship seems to have sailed a long time ago.
    Last edited by neptune; 02-28-2014 at 05:23 AM.

  5. #205
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    I do know investigators often present scenarios to people they are interrogating, to get more than the standard operating line. Not saying the FBI lied to Nancy on purpose, but they might have presented to her a scenario in which Tonya planned the attack to get Nancy to say how Tonya might have known about certain key things (where she practiced, her normal everyday habits). Sounds like Nancy was/is pretty reserved and might not have had much to say beyond the fact that they were teammates and she didn't know Tonya that well. Investigators might have wanted her to open up.

    It's also been 20 years and Nancy's memory might be fuzzy. Also the interview appears pretty edited. Nancy today sounds like she doesn't much care whether Tonya planned it or not.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    but they might have presented to her a scenario in which Tonya planned the attack to get Nancy to say how Tonya might have known about certain key things (where she practiced, her normal everyday habits). Sounds like Nancy was/is pretty reserved and might not have had much to say beyond the fact that they were teammates and she didn't know Tonya that well. Investigators might have wanted her to open up.
    OK, thanks. That might definitely explain a few things.

    It's also been 20 years and Nancy's memory might be fuzzy.
    And that would be understandable.

    Nancy today sounds like she doesn't much care whether Tonya planned it or not.
    That's a good thing, because an article I read about happiness research indicates that the most essential quality for happiness seems to be the ability to forgive easily. Based on her recent remarks, Nancy seems to harbor very little if any bitterness/resentfulness toward Tonya, but instead appears not to have taken any of what happened to her personally.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    That's a good thing, because an article I read about happiness research indicates that the most essential quality for happiness seems to be the ability to forgive easily. Based on her recent remarks, Nancy seems to harbor very little if any bitterness/resentfulness toward Tonya, but instead appears not to have taken any of what happened to her personally.
    Luck really went Nancy's way and it's always easier to reach forgiveness nirvana when there are no lasting or irreversible damages. The one resentment that nancy apparently still harbors is her name being liked to Tonya's like peanut butter and jelly for time immortal. She brings it up whenever interviewed about this, although she never clarifies if the resentment is directed at tonya, the media, the public who lap it up, or just the universe in general.

    Had she been permanently handicapped, or given a career ending injury, or prevented from skating in Lillehammer, or too injured to skate her best there, or suffered considerable income loss after the games, ect... And tonya had not paid so dearly for her mistakes, it would have been easier to hang onto that anger she clearly felt back on 94 when she had to share practice ice with the woman the FBI was telling her was guilty yet no one was willing to actually punish in any form.

  8. #208

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    But is Nancy still nursing a resentment towards Oksana?

  9. #209
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    Skaters never get over being beaten by somebody. They'll take that to their grave.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Based on her recent remarks, Nancy seems to harbor very little if any bitterness/resentfulness toward Tonya, but instead appears not to have taken any of what happened to her personally.
    She's also hoping that by acting indifferent about, people will stop asking her about Tonya. She's tired of being defined by this story. She just wants it to go away.
    Last edited by Johnny_Fever; 02-28-2014 at 10:41 PM.

  11. #211
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    As Tonya has said over and over again, she and Jeff were divorced. "D-I-V-O-R-C-E-D". Which means that Jeff would have had no access to the riches Tonya would have received if she had won the gold medal. He and the others had no motive to help Tonya win the gold medal unless they knew Tonya was going to cut them in on it in exchange for their help, which means she was in on it.

  12. #212
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    I thought the guys had this absurd idea that the Nancy attack would create a market for bodyguards.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Fever View Post
    I thought the guys had this absurd idea that the Nancy attack would create a market for bodyguards.
    sounds more like a perk than motive. If that was the goal, then they could have knee capped anyone, including Tonya herself. Heck, whacking Boitano or Zayak would have gotten them more press. Actually, all they had to do was threaten people over the phone. That's how they got the job protecting Harding in the first place anyway.

  14. #214
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    It wasn't the primary motive, but I remember it coming up. They weren't the brightest guys.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Luck really went Nancy's way and it's always easier to reach forgiveness nirvana when there are no lasting or irreversible damages.
    That's true. Still, she seems much more forgiving toward Tonya than many skating fans, who were never even directly involved.

    The one resentment that nancy apparently still harbors is her name being liked to Tonya's like peanut butter and jelly for time immortal. She brings it up whenever interviewed about this, although she never clarifies if the resentment is directed at tonya, the media, the public who lap it up, or just the universe in general.
    Well, that's understandable. No doubt it's always going to leave a bitter taste in her mouth--no one likes to be reminded of painful events from the past.

    Had she been permanently handicapped, or given a career ending injury, or prevented from skating in Lillehammer, or too injured to skate her best there, or suffered considerable income loss after the games, ect... And tonya had not paid so dearly for her mistakes, it would have been easier to hang onto that anger she clearly felt back on 94
    Definitely.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
    He and the others had no motive to help Tonya win the gold medal unless they knew Tonya was going to cut them in on it in exchange for their help, which means she was in on it.
    That's a very good point. He was still Tonya's live-in lover, though. And I think he also considered himself her "manager." Well, I guess neither Tonya nor Nancy hit the jackpot in that area.

    And if Tonya had been the mastermind all along, it would have been the blonde leading the blind!!!

  17. #217
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    That's a very good point. He was still Tonya's live-in lover, though. And I think he also considered himself her "manager."
    But he wouldn't have any legal right to the money, so he would be relying on Tonya's good will to share with him...and three of his friends. If she had no knowledge of the plot, why would she want to pay off four criminals after the fact for something she didn't even want them to do? It makes no sense! As dumb as those guys were, they would have to be even dumber to commit a serious federal crime with no firm plan/promise of a payoff.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    OK, thanks. However, if the kids end up being moved to a foster home, many people will know about it.
    How? Unless the kids keep skating and in the same area, they just disappear from the rink and that's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Actually, my point is that her mother is an extreme example. Does that mean that there have never, ever been other skating mothers similar to her? No. But she's far from being just your "typical" controlling skating mom. I mean, have you ever heard of another skating mom who's been married 6 times???
    She's far from your typical controlling skating mom but unfortunately she's also far from being unique and the worst ever. It's one of the secret shames of skating that there are kids in skating who have it as bad as Tonya did. Not as many as have eating disorders. But 3 that I have personally seen from 1993 to 2007 in only one area of the country that I would put on her level.

    So think about those numbers. If I personally knew about 3 during a 15 year period in one area, that means the odds are good that at any one point in time somewhere in the country, someone in skating is being treated like she was.

    Though I have to say what does being married 6 times have to do with anything? I dated a guy in HS whose dad was married 6 times. (It was the 70s and he just couldn't bring himself to sleep with women without marrying them. He was divorcing and remarrying his 7th by the time we graduated.) Now, I wouldn't call him a good role model for relationships but he was a well-to-do psychiatrist (yeah, I know) and a nice guy and not remotely abusive. Also, if Tonya's mother had been married only 1 time or only 3, would that have made her less abusive? I don't think so. The two issues are completely separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Oh, concerning Nancy's statement that the FBI believed Tonya was the mastermind, I wanted to mention this. On Access Hollywood just last month, Nancy said something like: "I didn't want to believe that Tonya was involved. But the FBI told me, 'Well, we don't have any hard evidence, but we do this for a living, and we believe she knew [about the attack].'" This is consistent with what Nancy has always said, and she mentioned nothing about Tonya being the mastermind. For her to suddenly say that the FBI told her that they thought Tonya was the mastermind is a bit odd. During the NBC interview, could she have simply been misremembering what they had told her? I mean, it's been 20 years, so I guess that's possible at least.
    It's not the first time she has said that the FBI told the family that Tonya knew about the attack and was involved in the planning. Also, when USFS stripped Tonya of her title, they said similar things. That the FBI has shown them more evidence than the public knew about and they were satisfied that she was involved from the beginning.

    But I'm sure the Tonya apologists will find some way to spin that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
    But he wouldn't have any legal right to the money, so he would be relying on Tonya's good will to share with him...and three of his friends. If she had no knowledge of the plot, why would she want to pay off four criminals after the fact for something she didn't even want them to do? It makes no sense! As dumb as those guys were, they would have to be even dumber to commit a serious federal crime with no firm plan/promise of a payoff.
    The story that Tonya had no idea and only learned about the attack when she came back from Nationals makes no sense.
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  19. #219

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    It's not the first time she has said that the FBI told the family that Tonya knew about the attack and was involved in the planning. Also, when USFS stripped Tonya of her title, they said similar things. That the FBI has shown them more evidence than the public knew about and they were satisfied that she was involved from the beginning.
    That was my understanding, as well.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmk View Post
    I don't believe Tonya planned the attack or even approved it. I think the FBI guy Frink just wanted to nail Tonya since the public had already convicted her.
    Eh, it doesn't matter now if she knew about the plot, but it speaks volumes about her character that she shows no remorse, compassion or wisdom, two decades later. Any regret that she expresses is for herself, not for the victim and her family.

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