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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I really don't think Ashley is expected to medal.
    Expected by people who don't follow the sport, as in because she got all this drama and attention, surely it is because she is going to medal. Not expected as in "likely to happen".

    Most people who don't follow the sport regularly still think the US ladies are top in the world. (And Michelle Kwan is still skating...)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Expected by people who don't follow the sport, as in because she got all this drama and attention, surely it is because she is going to medal. Not expected as in "likely to happen".

    Most people who don't follow the sport regularly still think the US ladies are top in the world. (And Michelle Kwan is still skating...)
    I know! Civilians are hilarious.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Expected by people who don't follow the sport, as in because she got all this drama and attention, surely it is because she is going to medal. Not expected as in "likely to happen".

    Most people who don't follow the sport regularly still think the US ladies are top in the world. (And Michelle Kwan is still skating...)
    We'll see how the international judges see this and how USFSA politicks for Ashley in Sochi.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I really don't think Ashley is expected to medal. She is the definition of the underdog. Also, I think rather than putting pressure on her, the decision to send her to Sochi will inspire her. I think the real pressure now is on Gracie, the newly minted Champ who skated two nearly flawless programs. She is the one whom I would consider a threat for the podium if she goes clean and emotes well. She is the one who said she wants a medal in both events and the one with the highest expectations of the whole team.
    I think there is tremendous pressure on Ashley Wagner, but it isn't really to earn a medal. It's pressure to do much, much better than at Nationals. It's also pressure to act with grace, never to put a foot wrong, to say respectful things about other skaters, especially Mirai Nagasu, and to keep her emotions in check if she makes even one small mistake.

  5. #25
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    Has Ashley said anything about Mirai since the naming of the team? I was surprised that she didn't acknowledge Mirai in her press conference statement, but it's possible that USFS asked her not to do so.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I think there is tremendous pressure on Ashley Wagner, but it isn't really to earn a medal. It's pressure to do much, much better than at Nationals.
    If you follow trends in her seasons for the past few years, you will see strong start, followed by a dip at Nationals, excepting 2012 and a recovery at 4CC and Worlds. If she is to follow her own trend, she will do fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    It's also pressure to act with grace, never to put a foot wrong, to say respectful things about other skaters, especially Mirai Nagasu, and to keep her emotions in check if she makes even one small mistake.
    And has this been a problem? Ashley is naturally gracious and respectful. She also seems rather warm and empathetic, compared to say, other US skaters...
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Has Ashley said anything about Mirai since the naming of the team? I was surprised that she didn't acknowledge Mirai in her press conference statement, but it's possible that USFS asked her not to do so.
    I'm not surprised she didn't mention Mirai. No matter what she said it could easily be twisted. But she definitely mentioned how grateful she was that the decision was made in her favor. She didn't seem entitled to me at all. In fact, her statement was closest to Z/B's in the "I can't believe it" realm. (Though Zhang didn't even speak...I don't think she could.)

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    ...

    I think the choice of Wagner was the right decision, but USFS is doing a poor job (IMO) explaining the decision to the public. Given the already tainted perception of skating, it is not enough to simply point to Wagner's "body of work" - they need to lay out the process they went through, what events they considered, the weight given to each, etc. Otherwise you're just gonna have this mess, conspiracy theories and the lot...and it's not fair to even Wagner either - her fed needs to stand behind her 100% and say, "It's on us" instead of putting her in such an uncomfortable position with the press, etc.
    ITA! It is unfair to all concerned for the USFS to make these decisions and let the skaters take the heat for them.

  9. #29
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    My partner's uncle's cousin's dog called me after Nats and said, "Woof, woof, woof, wooooof." Very angry. I was initially disappointed by the display of ignorance, but I knew I was speaking to a border collie, so I decided to correct him. The smart creature replied, "Ah, now I see. Yes, USFS is correct. Thank you, cupcake." We talked a bit about the weather, and then I hung up the phone and ate a kitty treat.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    And has this ever been a problem? Ashley is naturally gracious and respectful. She also seems rather warm and empathetic, compared to say, other US skaters...
    I agree, though the added pressure might get to her. It happens sometimes.

    I think, however, having two really good skates and finishing in the Top Six or so (or finishing ahead of Edmunds, for that matter) could be quite a challenge for her. And if she skates like she did at Nationals and shows as much disappointment with her performances as she did there, even those who have been sympathetic to her so far may feel differently.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyich View Post
    My partner's uncle's cousin's dog called me after Nats and said, "Woof, woof, woof, wooooof." Very angry. I was initially disappointed by the display of ignorance, but I knew I was speaking to a border collie, so I decided to correct him. The smart creature replied, "Ah, now I see. Yes, USFS is correct. Thank you, cupcake." We talked a bit about the weather, and then I hung up the phone and ate a kitty treat.
    I never take those scenarios seriously.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I still think 4CC would have been a better way to solve everything. I don't care that it's right before the Olympics. I've long since thought that the USFSA is too hasty in naming their world/Olympic teams. They send skaters based on the scoring in the inflated nationals bubble without taking into account how the US skaters stack up against the rest of the world and the way they are scored on an international stage.
    It is a good point about international judges vs inflated Nationals scoring and I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to somehow factoring both Nationals and 4CC if that's what they did every year. But I'm not seeing any problem with the placements at Nationals this year; it seemed correct to me. I don't think it's good to arbitrarily announce that a skater gets a do-over if they have a bad nationals. I agree with leafygreens that Ashley would likely feel the pressure of making the team just as much at 4CC. They did have a head-to-head competition with fair results and Ashley just got beat. Even aside from a bad free skate, Ashley didn't do a bad SP and it was still behind three girls with higher technical content.

    Now, if you look at a year like 2011, that would be a good argument for using both Nationals and 4CC results. In those days Nagasu was consistently beating Flatt in head-to-head internationals but Flatt came out on top twice in a row at Nationals (somewhat questionably IMO). They both did attend 4CC that year and Nagasu beat both Flatt and Czisny, the two World team members, in the international setting with a very good skate, winning a medal just behind Ando and Asada. Of course nothing's for sure but with the whole Tibiagate thing it seems Nagasu would have done better at Worlds that year (she was still skating well enough then to be a potential World medalist), possibly regaining the 3rd spot and maybe even preventing the downward slide of her career in 2012-2013 (that last bit is pure speculation, of course). Using 4CC would help remove the factor of favoritism on the national level and see who does best in a head-to-head international shortly before Worlds/Olympics. The head-to-head aspect removes the problem of the GPs, when skaters have differing levels of competition and different judging panels, and allows for someone who comes on strong at Nationals to be considered even if they didn't get the earlier assignments that are currently on the selection criteria.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I agree, though the added pressure might get to her. It happens sometimes.
    I think for Ashley to say something disrespectful or ungracious is so incredibly unlikely, it's not even worth mentioning. When did she ever come close to that? Even when TSL tore into her last year, she did the smart, the controlled and gracious thing. I keep thinking that other skaters have a track record of doing/saying stupid things, but not Ashley. Are you expecting a psychotic break? Aren't you being a bit melodramatic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I think, however, having two really good skates and finishing in the Top Six or so (or finishing ahead of Edmunds, for that matter) could be quite a challenge for her. And if she skates like she did at Nationals and shows as much disappointment with her performances as she did there, even those who have been sympathetic to her so far may feel differently.
    Well, of course, it will be a challenge. But your scenario is unlikely, from a statistical standpoint, or from trends, whatever you want to call this. USFSA is betting on her. Ashley's doing her best is not a sure thing, it's not for anyone, but it's the probability.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  14. #34

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    I just realized I'm reading a Gracie Gold thread. Amazing.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Well, of course, it will be a challenge. But your scenario is unlikely, from a statistical standpoint, or from trends, whatever you want to call this. USFSA is betting on her. Ashley's doing her best is not a sure thing, it's not for anyone, but it's the probability.
    What statistics or trends are you using? Are you considering how other skaters have done at the Olympics or Worlds when they've finished fourth or lower among age-eligible skaters at Nationals?

    I have no idea what statistics are out there, but I do recall an example. In 2006, the Japanese Federation sent Miki Ando, who was sixth at Nationals (and the fifth-highest age-eligible skater). She finished fifteenth at the Olympics. Of course, in her case she was bullheaded, went for the quadruple salchow, and wound up falling on an underrotated triple salchow. If she had just gone for a triple salchow or, better yet, a 3S+2T combination, she might have finished in eleventh.

  16. #36

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    So, who thinks Gracie will keep the bun? I love it. It's so Mad Men. Or maybe Margot Fonteyn.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I just realized I'm reading a Gracie Gold thread. Amazing.
    This is the US Ladies' thread

  18. #38

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    Burntbread, thank you for the correction. I obviously focused only on the subtitle.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    How would she know? She hasn't been to an Olympics. I really hope she stops doing interviews until after she competes in Sochi. Every time she is quoted she sounds more and more ridiculous. Where are the PR people?
    So true. Ashley likes to talk about how tough she is before or after an implosion. Sorry Ashley, but talk doesn't change the past present or future. She needs to be thinking about her skating instead of PR, but the PR is what got her on the team. Sometimes I think Ashley views the press as her therapists that she can have free-association psycho babble with.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Both of them noted that Mirai seems out of shape in terms of stamina and commented on her frequent rests during the program--guess that one was obvious not only to the informed fan but to the casual one as well.
    The judges didn't think so. Mirai beat Ashley by 8 points.

  20. #40
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    I don't think there is any bad blood between Mirai and Ashley. None of the skaters are responsible for the controversy, and none should be blamed or excoriated.

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