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  1. #21
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    I'm still that the 2002 scandal at SLC was apparently all about the ice dance results!
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Yeah, the best parts of the article are about their Moms and Charlie's one-liner, "... what about me? Are you saying I'm not a unique beauty?

    IJS and quads IMO have much more of a "brittle legitimacy" than ice dance ever had.
    Quads have a brittle legitimacy?

    Agreed about Charlie's line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I would expect a journalist writing on a subject to research it properly first (pie in the sky, I know). He clearly has no clue what he's talking about. I mean Domnina/Shabalin supposedly being gold medal favourites in 2010.
    At least the injury was acknowledged as a hindering factor for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Given how many times NA teams have won ice dance medals vs how many times Russian teams have won ice dance medals, maybe it's not surprising that NBC feels that way.
    Have there been that many NA teams who were unfairly deprived of medals over the years? If they were to look at, say, ski jumping medal tables, would that also lead to arguments about the unfairness of it all?

    Of course, when NA teams are winning, clearly ice dance is legitimate and the scoring system works. This is also true for gymnastics, I believe.

    We all know that figure skating is a political sport, but unlike NBC, I don't believe it all originates on one side of the Atlantic.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post

    We all know that figure skating is a political sport, but unlike NBC, I don't believe it all originates on one side of the Atlantic.
    And I didn't say I believed that either. Just pointing out that those not familiar with the intricacies of ice dancing might look at the list of past results and conclude that North Americans were being treated unfairly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And I didn't say I believed that either. Just pointing out that those not familiar with the intricacies of ice dancing might look at the list of past results and conclude that North Americans were being treated unfairly.
    No, you didn't. It just annoys me to see so much coverage that doesn't bother to differentiate between politicking and legitimate outcomes.

  5. #25
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    I was interested to see what the NYT would come up with in the article. I am no expert on dance and cannot pick up factual errors like you guys, so could you please tell me, where are the Davis and White dads? That shows how little I follow dance.
    Last edited by IceAlisa; 01-06-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I was interested to see what the NYT would come up with in the article. I am no expert on dance and cannot pick up factual errors like you guys, so could you please tell me, where are the Davis and White dads? That shows how little I follow dance.
    FS is a mommy sport and not a daddy sport. How many interviews of daddies, who are not part of athletes coaching team have you seen so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    FS is a mommy sport and not a daddy sport. How many interviews of daddies, who are not part of athletes coaching team have you seen so far.
    Kiira Korpi´s father Rauno Korpi, who is a former ice hockey coach, has been interwiewed many times about FS. He often says that it is much harder than ice hockey and the skaters really train like crazies. Was not Trankov´s father also part of the sport?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnice View Post
    Kiira Korpi´s father Rauno Korpi, who is a former ice hockey coach, has been interwiewed many times about FS. He often says that it is much harder than ice hockey and the skaters really train like crazies. Was not Trankov´s father also part of the sport?
    It seems he is famous on his own right, great to know.

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    There's also Danny Kwan...

    Valentina Marchei's father was an Olympic marathoner; she's said in the past that he was too nervous to come and watch her compete very often, but that she does go to him for advice and support.

    There are some past skaters and/or current coaches who are involved in their children's training to varying extents (e.g. Nikolai Morozov, Ilia Kulik, Didier Lucine, Jun Ge).

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Even commentators have no idea how good or bad a performance will score until the marks come out.
    Some knowledgeable commentators would have a pretty good idea -- Tracy Wilson, Judy Blumberg, Tanith Belbin.

    However, the networks are more interested in gearing their commentary toward a few million casual viewers who don't know one edge from another and don't care, so the coverage focuses more on human interest and obvious errors or obvious strengths that can be pointed out without detailed explanation to viewers with no prior knowledge.

    Those commentators can make pretty good estimations of which teams will be in medal contention, top 10, lower ranks. They may know for sure or have a good idea what levels were called, but until the scores are finalized and in the computer -- including the PCS -- they can't do the math on the fly to predict accurately which of several closely matched teams will come out ahead. So why guess out loud and risk being proved wrong?

    And the networks do like to maintain suspense, especially in supporting the chances of the home team(s).

    So the commentators are not encouraged to provide a detailed analysis.

    We thousands of more interested fans who would like learn more are out of luck when it comes to network commentary.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Well, how D/S ever became reigning World gold medalists in the first place has more to do with politics and maybe, uh ... perhaps a bit of brittle legitimacy.
    What do you mean? Before Shabalin's injury, they were one of the best teams in the world, competing at that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    The real problem with ice dance - for fans and non-fans of skating - is that no one can look at a step sequence or a lift and tell you what level it is. You see an amazing and fluid dance that moves you, and it scores low because of levels. Then a robotic and boring dance that bores you, and it wins medals. And sadly it's not something you can train yourself to spot like with spin levels and jump under-rotations. Even commentators have no idea how good or bad a performance will score until the marks come out.
    That is true of any sport that is judged, though. It's the same in gymnastics or diving. And even in Six-pack Joe favourite's sport football, you can see a goal being scored and then the referee raises the offside flag and everybody cries and it's all unfair and about politics and bribes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    I mean name me one commentator who made a single comment about a mistake in the compulsory dance portion of the SD this season, and yet look at the protocols of the top 10 ice dancers, and it's littered with NNN and NYN. Why? Hell if I know. And no one tries to explain it on TV because even they don't know.
    Maybe TV networks should hire people who know what they are talking about then? Would be great. Now I can't specifically recall a comment about the compulsory levels but I definitely can recall Polish and Russian commentators making comments about specific details. Most English-speaking commentators I heard totally suck though (PJ Kwong deserves a honourable mention for actually caring, she's lovely).

    Having said that, as gkelly said, I am sure that there are commentators who do know. However, they most likely get orders from above not to go into technical details.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I was interested to see what the NYT would come up with in the article. I am no expert on dance and cannot pick up factual errors like you guys, so could you please tell me, where are the Davis and White dads? That shows how little I follow dance.
    Since according to the journalist, ice dance is a FEMININE GAY NOT MASCULINE ILLEGITIMATE NOT REAL SPORT, it would make sense that he would be interested in mums and not dads.

  12. #32
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    You guys, there's an article about ice dance in the New York Times. It's not written snarkily but attempts to get at some of the history and issues with a focus on the US #1 team. It's not written for us but for somewhat literate but not-knowledgeable people who read the NYTimes sports page.

    How is this a bad thing? The good commentators who were dancers themselves will hopefully be used in NBC coverage or phluff pieces. In the meantime, for those of us who lament that figure skating in the US is always too fixated on ladies, this is something of a corrective and in our most important newspaper.

    Take a step back and say thank you to the New York Times.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    You guys, there's an article about ice dance in the New York Times. It's not written snarkily but attempts to get at some of the history and issues with a focus on the US #1 team. It's not written for us but for somewhat literate but not-knowledgeable people who read the NYTimes sports page.

    How is this a bad thing? The good commentators who were dancers themselves will hopefully be used in NBC coverage or phluff pieces. In the meantime, for those of us who lament that figure skating in the US is always too fixated on ladies, this is something of a corrective and in our most important newspaper.

    Take a step back and say thank you to the New York Times.
    Gotta agree. I was thrilled to see an ice dance article in the NYT. At first I hated the whole "So You Think You Can Dance" comparison and thought it insulted the ice dancers who spend their LIVES perfecting their sport far from television noteriety. However, if that is an attempt to interest the many fans of the cheesy dance shows and some small percetage of those fans take an interest in figure skating through this channel, hey, its a net gain.

  14. #34

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    It is snark. Virtue and moir should be favored because zueva's parking spot is closer to their spots?

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    PRLady and RobinA, thank you, you expressed better than I did why I started this thread. I skate ice dance now, coached by a current Nationals competitor. It was GREAT to finally see ANY article focusing on the dance event and telling the folks in the US that "hey, you should pay attention to this. Also fun to hear from Meryl and Charlie. Not every article has to be aimed at the "discriminating" fan...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  16. #36
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    Agree with those who point out that we should be happy that figure skating and specifically ice dancing scored a feature article in a major news outlet. It's not a PhD level discussion of the nuances of ice dance and how it is judged, but then again this isn't the place for that. It's interesting and colourful, balanced, gives a good introduction of what the sport is about, and helps build momentum going into the Olys. I don't even mind the reference to DWTS - that show remains hugely popular in the US, and if the connection gets a few more people interested in ice dance then that's a good thing, no?

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    You guys, there's an article about ice dance in the New York Times. It's not written snarkily but attempts to get at some of the history and issues with a focus on the US #1 team. It's not written for us but for somewhat literate but not-knowledgeable people who read the NYTimes sports page.

    How is this a bad thing? The good commentators who were dancers themselves will hopefully be used in NBC coverage or phluff pieces. In the meantime, for those of us who lament that figure skating in the US is always too fixated on ladies, this is something of a corrective and in our most important newspaper.

    Take a step back and say thank you to the New York Times.
    Well said and I agree. I enjoyed the article.

    We have so many folks on this forum, many who are strongly opinionated and extremely articulate. Perhaps you all might take up freelance writing in your spare time?
    Last edited by FiveRinger; 01-06-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Agree with those who point out that we should be happy that figure skating and specifically ice dancing scored a feature article in a major news outlet. It's not a PhD level discussion of the nuances of ice dance and how it is judged, but then again this isn't the place for that. It's interesting and colourful, balanced, gives a good introduction of what the sport is about, and helps build momentum going into the Olys. I don't even mind the reference to DWTS - that show remains hugely popular in the US, and if the connection gets a few more people interested in ice dance then that's a good thing, no?
    Is it really an article about ice dance? It's mostly fluff and shows total ignorance of ice dance as a sport or any details of it all. It mentions injuries but has no connection to how it could negatively affect a team because of the sports technical demands in twizzles or lifts or anything. You get no idea of the sport outside of DW and VM and what is making them successful. Is their success due to training with Marina Zueva and then judges choose the team whose parking space is closest to hers?

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    Casey, let the parking space thing go; it's clearly tongue in cheek.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by CassAgain View Post
    Casey, let the parking space thing go; it's clearly tongue in cheek.
    Not when its written by Jere Longman!

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