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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Jere Longman has been covering skating for more than 20 years, so if he thinks ice dancing shouldn't be in the Olympics, I would be willing to listen to why. It would be an informed opinion at least.
    I don't give much credibility to the Phil Hersh "it's not an athletic sport" view, but there are people who think that a skating discipline with such a long history of, um, questionable outcomes shouldn't be in the Olympics unless it's fairer or more transparent.
    Speaking of Jere Longman, I enjoyed this article dressing, uh "undressing" him down.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...etty-athletes/

    The fact Longman has covered figure skating for more than 20 years, is kind of embarrassing in that what he's actually learned of substance about the sport over that time doesn't appear to be very substantial or enlightening.

    You may ask, "What do I have against Jere Longman?" Not much since I really don't know him. And the cited article in NYT is not completely awful -- it's fair to middling as figure skating articles go these days in the popular media. OTOH, it is somewhat irritating when journalists (including Mr. Longman) take the easy way out in their research and writing, with fairly often offering up pap, hype, fluff, cliches, and/ or ignorance and nose-in-the air commentary. If you say we can find the same on FSU at times, sure, but it's not journalism, and quite often on here there are wonderful writers who truly have something instructive and informative to say about figure skating.

    Anyone who thinks "Ice Dance" should not be in the Olympics, truthfully I don't really want to hear them say why. That's very close to them claiming figure skating isn't really a sport and also should not be in the Olympics. In fact, I think there is such a thing as DanceSport which should be included in the Summer Olympics! Just sayin ...

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Speaking of Jere Longman, I enjoyed this article dressing, uh "undressing" him down.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...etty-athletes/
    Seriously? An article by "Dr. Keith Ablow [who] is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team"? The fact that he bills himself as a psychiatrist and then makes evaluations of the attitudes of someone he admits he's never even met says a lot about his credibility, i.e. he has none.

    And BTW Jere Longman does not always take "the easy way out" in research and writing about skating. He broke the story about the allegations of Richard Callaghan abusing students and fellow coaches:
    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/11/sp...ted=all&src=pm
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  3. #63
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    I hold no allegiances to either Longman or Ablow, nor to Callaghan for that matter. Perhaps Ablow has something against Longman as Ablow certainly does a good job of expressing how distasteful he found Longman's tearing down of the athlete, Lolo Jones.

    Hooray for Longman "breaking" the story of Mr. Callaghan's transgressions. However, I don't see that as any evidence that Longman knows a great deal about figure skating, nor does that make Longman an enterprising, enlightened or hard-working fs journalist, IMHO.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    Hooray for Longman breaking the story of Mr. Callaghan's transgressions, but I don't see that as any evidence that Longman knows a great deal about figure skating, nor does that make Longman an enterprising, enlightened or hard-working fs journalist, IMHO.
    So someone who took the considerable time and effort to address a controversial issue in skating, and to gather the factual evidence to back it up, doesn't "know a great deal about figure skating" and isn't an "enterprising, enlightened or hardworking fs journalist". I think anyone who takes the time to read the article, and Longman's other work since then, would differ with that assessment.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  5. #65
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    To each their own assessment. As I said hooray for Longman ferreting out and writing about an abuse scandal that occurred in fs. Such abuses are not exclusive to figure skating. Abuse of any kind is a human/ societal issue. I don't find Longman's coverage of it in this instance particularly courageous or scintillating. I have read some of Longman's other reporting on figure skating and have found it average at best and lacking at worst.

  6. #66

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    The main point of Longman's criticism of LoLo Jones was that she was receiving far more attention surrounding the Olympics for her looks and her actions outside the track than for her Olympic exploits on it. Let's face it: LoLo was a washout at both summer Olympics she qualified for, and the level of attention she got vs the athletes who actually won those events was really ridiculous. (It still ticks me off that LoLo got all the attention crying about Longman's article to any media person who looked her way while the athletes who actually won and placed in her event got ignored except for attracting venom for honestly admitting that the attention LoLo received instead of them was unbalanced).

    Not to go completely off topic, but we get to deal with LoLo again as she is now trying to make the Olympic bobsled team. And as usual, she's commanding all the attention (quick: name another woman trying to qualify in bobsled...). I don't think that's all for her expertise on the bobsled track...)
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I don't find Longman's coverage of it in this instance particularly courageous or scintillating.
    To get that many people to go on the record about something so potentially damaging to the sport and/or to their own careers in the sport, and to risk your own access and insight into the sport by doing it, is courageous by any standard. I'm sorry that you can't see that.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    The main point of Longman's criticism of LoLo Jones was that she was receiving far more attention surrounding the Olympics for her looks and her actions outside the track than for her Olympic exploits on it. Let's face it: LoLo was a washout at both summer Olympics she qualified for, and the level of attention she got vs the athletes who actually won those events was really ridiculous. (It still ticks me off that LoLo got all the attention crying about Longman's article to any media person who looked her way while the athletes who actually won and placed in her event got ignored except for attracting venom for honestly admitting that the attention LoLo received instead of them was unbalanced).

    Not to go completely off topic, but we get to deal with LoLo again as she is now trying to make the Olympic bobsled team. And as usual, she's commanding all the attention (quick: name another woman trying to qualify in bobsled...). I don't think that's all for her expertise on the bobsled track...)
    Jones hitting the hurdle in 2008 and then qualifying in 2012 created a redemption storyline and when she placed 4th she hadn't won or medaled but certainly did better than hitting the hurdle and ruining her chances. Just doing great and winning will have to be enough for the other Americans!

  9. #69
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    What would really help the appeal of ice-dance to American audiences would be if Dancing with the Stars would put some ice down on their dance floor and have Meryl and Charlie do an exhibition. Of course, the DWTS dance floor would be VERY small compared to an Olympic rink, so I don't know if the idea is viable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatale View Post
    What would really help the appeal of ice-dance to American audiences would be if Dancing with the Stars would put some ice down on their dance floor and have Meryl and Charlie do an exhibition. Of course, the DWTS dance floor would be VERY small compared to an Olympic rink, so I don't know if the idea is viable.
    I am sure they can build a larger ice surface. May not be Olympic size but D&W don't really have to skate at that level. A few ice dance moves on the smaller surface may be enough to get some audiences interested and may be hungry to see more difficult moves at the world/Oly level.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    To get that many people to go on the record about something so potentially damaging to the sport and/or to their own careers in the sport, and to risk your own access and insight into the sport by doing it, is courageous by any standard. I'm sorry that you can't see that.
    Do we really know whether he "got" people to go on record, or was tipped by party or parties bringing suit and simply followed up as many journalists would do. I wouldn't exactly call it courageous to break such a story in any case. In general, journalists are always on the look-out to break a big story that can become a feather in their cap. I seriously doubt Mr. Longman was risking his "career in the sport" since figure skating is not a big career-making sport for him. I don't see him losing contacts within the sport either for breaking this story which was going to be broken anyway with Maurizi having a falling out with Callaghan and coming forward. And again the story is not strictly about figure skating, so it doesn't show that Mr. Longman has any great grasp or expertise on the subject of figure skating. BTW, was Mr. Callaghan ever indicted or were the civil suits settled out of court?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    The main point of Longman's criticism of LoLo Jones was that she was receiving far more attention surrounding the Olympics for her looks and her actions outside the track than for her Olympic exploits on it. Let's face it: LoLo was a washout at both summer Olympics she qualified for, and the level of attention she got vs the athletes who actually won those events was really ridiculous. (It still ticks me off that LoLo got all the attention crying about Longman's article to any media person who looked her way while the athletes who actually won and placed in her event got ignored except for attracting venom for honestly admitting that the attention LoLo received instead of them was unbalanced).

    Not to go completely off topic, but we get to deal with LoLo again as she is now trying to make the Olympic bobsled team. And as usual, she's commanding all the attention (quick: name another woman trying to qualify in bobsled...). I don't think that's all for her expertise on the bobsled track...)
    Eh, I don't really follow Lolo Jones or track, or bobsled, but I also don't decry or condemn Ms. Jones for trying hard to compete in athletic sports and flaunting her prodigious beauty in the process. I guess some not only get to "deal" with her, but also some hidden jealousies have the opportunity to be dealt/ have their ubiquitous heads reared.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Anyone who thinks "Ice Dance" should not be in the Olympics, truthfully I don't really want to hear them say why. That's very close to them claiming figure skating isn't really a sport and also should not be in the Olympics. In fact, I think there is such a thing as DanceSport which should be included in the Summer Olympics! Just sayin ...
    Eh...honestly most competitive dancers want absolutely nothing to do with the Olympics, especially after the schism that created the IOC-affiliate organization (WDSF) caused a ton of issues for competing amateurs, leading to competitions banning dancers and officials (mostly WDSF banning people who participated in WDF events), federations punishing dancers who did or didn't do particular events (especially Italy and Russia), the Blackpool issues...it wasn't pretty. There are also matters of representation-most of the top level "Americans", for example, are Russians or from somewhere else in Eastern Europe. While it's admittedly the pros, Michael and Joanna jumped from representing Poland to representing the UK, and stuff like that happens all the the time (though not generally with multiple world titlists.) There're lots more cross-country partnerships than in skating. There's the issue of which disciplines (America would make a strong argument for Smooth and Rhythm, Australia would love New Vogue), and then there's WDSF's horribly misbegotten plans for introducing IJS-style scoring which could make a long day even longer.

    Admittedly, I want nothing to do with WDSF. As a pro-am dancer, I dance NDCA events which are a WDF affiliate. I don't have a personal dog in the fight. But among the dancers, there is just not a big push or desire to be in the Olympics. Possibly this is more true than skating because there is a huge pro scene-there are more opportunities to compete or perform as a pro than there are as an am.

  14. #74
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    Thanks danceronice for that insider information/ update. I wasn't aware of how this had played out. I do recall seeing a documentary some years ago in which pro dancers had been interested in DanceSport being included in the Olympics.

    BTW, what dance style is your expertise? Do you also compete in ice dance, or is dancing on ice more of a pleasurable pastime?
    Last edited by aftershocks; 01-08-2014 at 11:59 PM.

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