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  1. #1

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    New York Times article: Ice Dance and its appeal (or lack therof)

    As someone who know skates dance, this was an interesting take on ice dance, the issue of it as sport, and a nice comparison on the top 2 teams:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/05/sp...ef=sports&_r=0
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  2. #2
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    Nothing like the rehashing of the usual Six-Pack John non-arguments. Definitely what the world needs.

  3. #3
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    Nice story for non-fans, without sensationalism. Hopefully closer to Sochi someone who knows will write an article for the NYT explaining the components of the dances and especially the PCS scores, give people something to learn rather than just talk about how mysterious and random it all is.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

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    Sorry to bore you, Ziggy but I liked the actual interviews with Meryl and Charlie and thought it was an interesting take. Agree with PRLady about how hopefully someone will go more in depth as we get to the Olympics.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

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    I think it was being discussed recently if anyone thought d/s were favorites and Vancouver and here jere longman says they were but no publication at all were predicting d/s for gold with their dual problems of having the worst program of all time as of 2010 and being so injured that they lost both od and fd to f/s at euros.

    I can't believe the words level or twizzle were never used once! Lol. But it makes sense as his views are like most American writers that ice dance is a big joke and all false and results are based on parking spot proximity even an American team being the frontrunner for gold was impossible and never going to happen!

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    An existential question lurks: Is rumba really a sport?
    Olympic ice dancing also now carries the reality-television, celebrity-culture appeal of shows like “Dancing With the Stars” and “So You Think You Can Dance,” programs that have turned the salsa, tango and fox trot into somewhat quantifiable competitions.
    That's an interesting take?

    The story on Davis and White is indeed interesting but those kind of ignorant broski statements are just beyond .

    It's rhumba and foxtrot. He can't even spell them right.

    I would expect a journalist writing on a subject to research it properly first (pie in the sky, I know). He clearly has no clue what he's talking about. I mean Domnina/Shabalin supposedly being gold medal favourites in 2010.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 01-05-2014 at 05:45 PM.

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    Rumba is just as right as rhumba but the article is stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Rumba is just as right as rhumba but the article is stupid.
    Rumba isn't an Olympic sport though. Rhumba, on the other hand, is a compulsory dance.

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    True ISU rules and official spelling is Rhumba. I was also thinking of dance in general but its fitting for that article to miss.

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    Loved the part about their moms complimentary vision.

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    Yeah, the best parts of the article are about their Moms and Charlie's one-liner, "... what about me? Are you saying I'm not a unique beauty?

    The reference to ice dance as having a "brittle legitimacy," and being mocked are old-hat these days. Would be more interesting if the writer referred to such views in an historical context and then discussed how those views have changed and why. The article totally misses the boat re the extraordinary landscape that has been ice dance in the era of Meryl & Charlie, and Tessa & Scott -- an era of North American dominance unfortunately characterized by bickering among uber fans more than by appreciation of the drive for excellence that both these teams exemplify. Oh boy, what a great story that is! Dare we dream that NBC will do a better job as the climax of this journey for these 2 remarkable teams unfolds?

    IJS and quads IMO have much more of a "brittle legitimacy" than ice dance ever had.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I would expect a journalist writing on a subject to research it properly first (pie in the sky, I know). He clearly has no clue what he's talking about. I mean Domnina/Shabalin supposedly being gold medal favourites in 2010.
    Well Dom/Shabs were the reigning World gold medalists leading into the 09/10 cycle, and they did (deservedly, IMO) win the CD in Vancouver. And despite their other crappy dances they walked limped away with the bronze. Those types of results don't really help the credibility of ice dance.
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

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    Well, how D/S ever became reigning World gold medalists in the first place has more to do with politics and maybe, uh ... perhaps a bit of brittle legitimacy.

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    Weeelllll....I think we have a sport that needs more fans, and the more esoteric we get in major newspapers, the more we alienate potential people who might fall in love with figure skating. I can also sympathize with a writer who just can't help but leave in a turn of phrase that catches their fancy. I thought it was a nice piece.

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    No question it's nice as articles about fs are so rare as to be forgotten relics. Have to either laugh at or bemoan the fact that in the U.S. fs seems newsworthy only every four years. Again yes it seems we true fans should be thankful for every scrap that comes our way. But there also should be no harm in pointing out failings in coverage and hoping for better, and suggesting how the coverage could improve.

    Yes there's always hope, even as the sport and its neglected fans limp our way toward more, much more than mockery, more than the whack heard around the world, and more than that ubiquitous brittle legitimacy tag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peibeck View Post
    Well Dom/Shabs were the reigning World gold medalists leading into the 09/10 cycle, and they did (deservedly, IMO) win the CD in Vancouver. And despite their other crappy dances they walked limped away with the bronze. Those types of results don't really help the credibility of ice dance.
    But no one at the time in any publication at all was predicting d/s for gold. They really bombed euros losing od and fd to a team not even considered in the running for an Olympic medal. Winning because of the cd.

    NBC still doesn't understand ice dance at all thinking russia has any power or influence to win a medal for a russia team. Depicting North Americans as underdogs for some reason against a Russia machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    NBC still doesn't understand ice dance at all thinking russia has any power or influence to win a medal for a russia team. Depicting North Americans as underdogs for some reason against a Russia machine.
    Given how many times NA teams have won ice dance medals vs how many times Russian teams have won ice dance medals, maybe it's not surprising that NBC feels that way.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #18
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    The real problem with ice dance - for fans and non-fans of skating - is that no one can look at a step sequence or a lift and tell you what level it is. You see an amazing and fluid dance that moves you, and it scores low because of levels. Then a robotic and boring dance that bores you, and it wins medals. And sadly it's not something you can train yourself to spot like with spin levels and jump under-rotations. Even commentators have no idea how good or bad a performance will score until the marks come out.

    I mean name me one commentator who made a single comment about a mistake in the compulsory dance portion of the SD this season, and yet look at the protocols of the top 10 ice dancers, and it's littered with NNN and NYN. Why? Hell if I know. And no one tries to explain it on TV because even they don't know

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Given how many times NA teams have won ice dance medals vs how many times Russian teams have won ice dance medals, maybe it's not surprising that NBC feels that way.
    It kind of is based on the results of the past 4 years even the Olympics 2010. It's not even mathematically possible for a Russian team to beat DW or VM and that's been the case for years now!

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    The person who wrote this article has no clue what they are talking about - this person does not know a twizzle from a fizzle. NBC needs to step it up with qualified reporting if it expects knowledgeable skating fans to take it seriously next month.

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