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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by znachki View Post
    Lord Gillingham's valet, Mr. Green (/) who is referred to by Downton staff as "Mister Gillingham" is the rapist. Common practice at house parties was for the valets and maids who traveled with their employers to be called by the employers last name. Simplified things.

    So, if Bates and Anna traveld with the family, they'd be Mr. Grantham & Mrs. Crawley.
    As was they case when they went to the Highlands at the end of last season.

    It must be a factoid about life in service that Fellowes particularly likes, though, as he's used (and provided opportunity for it to be commented on by the characters) it at least twice now in Downton and also throughout Gosford Park. Whether or not it "simplified things" is debatable, though ...

  2. #162

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    Thanks. I suspected that was the case, but I had company during the broadcast and got a tad distracted.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  3. #163
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    I'm late discovering this thread so I'll comment on both episodes at once.

    What I liked:

    Edith's wardrobe. The writer may hate her, but she must be the stylist's favorite. I've thought since Season 1 that she has had the best wardrobe -- particularly her day dresses.

    To my surprise, I am really liking Rose! I like that her character is being given more substance, particularly that she is such a fan of music and dance. She has danced in every episode in which she has appeared. And speaking of wardrobe, I loved her PJs in the season premier.

    Another good thing about Rose that I just realized on this episode: there is finally another ("spinster") woman to join Edith at breakfast with the men.

    I'm so glad Mary apologized to Mr. Carson. She treated him terribly.

    Isobel breaks my heart and is being portrayed beautifully by Penelope Wilton. Those tear-filled eyes of hers are heartbreaking.



    Some not so good things:

    Matthew's absence is a huge gap. He was everything: the male romantic lead, the heir, the one who financially saved Downton. In fact, the mystery surrounding who he was and what he would be like was the driving force to the whole series. I realize that there was a gap to fill and it must have been difficult for the writers, but I found too many "people interfering in other people's lives" themes in the premier. I found epsiode 2 much more believable.

    If they're trying to make Edna a replacement for Miss O'Brien, they are severely missing the mark. No one can out-O'Brien Miss O'Brien. Edna is not even a shadow. She doesn't even have curly bangs.

    Even though John Bates was ultimately right in being suspicious of Mr. Green, the way he kept barking at Anna and bossing her around in front of others was terrible.

    I am tired of them making Mr. Molesley a fool. They had a beautiful scene of him and his father talking about his woes under a lovely star-lit sky. They seemed to be going in a direction of giving a sensitive treatment of the difficulties of someone like him who was suddenly unemployed.

    Yet they ruined it by making him a fool at Violet's luncheon (through the butler's sabotage.)
    They have twice made him a foolish drunk, they have made him someone who grossly overestimates his talent at cricket, and now made him a bumbling fool at serving a small luncheon. I could see giving him one flaw, but they're making him a buffoon.
    Last edited by mikemba; 01-16-2014 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #164
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    The biggest weakness for me is that they seem to be pushing Mary too quickly into a romance. I am glad to see her dealing with her grief, but I think that priority one should have been bonding with little George -- then when she was ready, get involved in the business. But it's much too early for romance.

    Even though Anthony Gillingham seemed very nice, and she did not seem to be actively looking for love, I just can't believe that Mary would be interested in any type of romance less than a year after Matthew's death. I thought that gleeful laugh at dinner was too much in the opposite extreme of her earlier grief.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemba View Post
    The biggest weakness for me is that they seem to be pushing Mary too quickly into a romance. I am glad to see her dealing with her grief, but I think that priority one should have been bonding with little George -- then when she was ready, get involved in the business. But it's much too early for romance.

    Even though Anthony Gillingham seemed very nice, and she did not seem to be actively looking for love, I just can't believe that Mary would be interested in any type of romance less than a year after Matthew's death. I thought that gleeful laugh at dinner was too much in the opposite extreme of her earlier grief.
    I actually thought that whole interaction was one of the best parts of last Sunday's episode. I didn't detect any "pushing" -- by either the family or the writers -- into romance, just pushing Mary to continue to come out of her shell of grief. The whole thing played very realistically for me, as a "hmm, if the timing had been better this might have gone somewhere, but for now at least we'll just be friends" kind of thing.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Gillingham return in a later episode, though.

    As for bonding with little George ... I don't foresee much of that happening. The aristocracy of that era simply didn't "bond" with their young children. The scene from the previous week when the fed & dressed Sybie and George were brought by the nanny into the drawing room for a half hour of show&tell was pretty much typical of parental interactions in that time and place.

  6. #166
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    [QUOTE=Artemis@BC;4118175] Snip

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Gillingham return in a later episode, though.
    snip

    Sure, Gillingham will return accompanied by his servant who attacked Anna. Hopefully Green will meet with an "accident".

  7. #167
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    I doubt that Lord Gillingham will be Mary's only suitor.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    I actually thought that whole interaction was one of the best parts of last Sunday's episode.
    I did, too. I thought there was a nice ease to the interaction between Anthony and Mary, and I don't think that he pushed it at all. However, I do feel that both Cora (by inviting a few potential suitors for Mary) and the show (by having Mary at least start to show romantic interest 7 months after Matthew's death) were really rushing it. Tom lost Sybil more than a year before Mary lost Matthew. He still looks like he's about to cry whenever anyone mentions her name, and he has shown no interest in pursuing a new romance. To me, that is much more realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    As for bonding with little George ... I don't foresee much of that happening. The aristocracy of that era simply didn't "bond" with their young children. The scene from the previous week when the fed & dressed Sybie and George were brought by the nanny into the drawing room for a half hour of show&tell was pretty much typical of parental interactions in that time and place.
    By bonding with George, I do mean what was normal for early 20th century aristocracy. In episode one, Mary's level of interest in George was very meager even for their standards. Even Anna gave Mary her unsolicited opinion to this effect. Mary referred to him as an orphan, declined the nanny's invitation to join them for a walk, etc. So I thought it would have been more fitting, after starting to pull out of her deep level of grief, if the first thing she did was to approach the level of interest in her baby that was normal for someone of her position. I would have liked to have seen that before -- a good deal before -- I saw her giggle at Anthony's invitation to take her out when in London.

  9. #169
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    Twitter:

    Shawn Ryan ‏@ShawnRyanTV 6h
    If there's one thing I've learned from Downton Abbey it's that the leading cause of death in post-WW1 Britain was lack of a 7 year contract.
    Retweeted by BehindScenesDownton


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    Shawn Ryan Verified account
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    Last edited by dardar1126; 01-16-2014 at 11:57 PM.

  10. #170
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    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    If you've watched TV, like, ever, you'll know that real-life conception stats have absolutely nothing to do with TV-land conception rates. The only math that matters here is the potential for dramatic conflict.
    The part of my post you had in bold demonstrates I am aware of the phenomenon. I was commenting, like most of us here. Same with CPR, TV successful resuscitation rates also have nothing to do with reality, unfortunately.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  12. #172
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    ^ Yes, I fully understood that -- sorry if you thought I was implying or interpreting otherwise.

  13. #173
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    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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  15. #175
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    So finally I got to watch Episode 2.

    The Dowager Countess quoting a Rossetti poem. And she sees and knows all. Love the Puccini and the guilt snarks.

    Loved Cora telling off Sir Robert about him being a snob and not wanting to talk to the opera singer.

    Edith continues to wear dresses.

    Do people think Mary will go for Lord Gillingham?

    Anna
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  16. #176
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    IceAlisa, I forgot about Cora telling off Robert. I normally like these things to be polite and private, but he had been so pompous this episode that I was glad that she delivered her message in such a scolding tone, and within earshot of Mr. Carson, no less. Well done, Cora!

    I also liked how very kind Violet was to Isobel. Almost every time Violet has ever done anything kind she reaped some benefit of her own, but this time she seemed completely selfless. She was sincerely and deeply concerned for Isobel.

    In a lighter moment, I loved how Rose repeatedly punched the man who was attacking her dance partner, Sam, at the York Dance Hall. She's a firecracker, that Rose!

  17. #177
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    Cora in this episode.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  18. #178
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    [QUOTE][/QUOTE]In a lighter moment, I loved how Rose repeatedly punched the man who was attacking her dance partner, Sam, at the York Dance Hall. She's a firecracker, that Rose

    Yes! I did not see this until I rewatched it. She was one step away from jumping on his back. I was happy to see her act so unladylike.


    Do people think Mary will go for Lord Gillingham
    We need to see more of him. I remember when Matthew first appeared and I really couldn't see it ( between them). Mary's personality and his were complete opposites. As she said in this episode, 'Matthew changed me'. But at first I didn't see it.

  19. #179
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    I miss Matthew. I guess Tom will be the moral compass of the show now. And the romantic lead. I wish he could see that the new maid is setting him up for a fall.
    I hope they don't have her coming on to him every episode. It would get really tiring and boring.
    I knew what was going to happen to Anna , so, was not surprised. Glad she fought so hard but wish she would have told Sir Robert what happened. Make that told Cora.
    I wondered why he went after middle aged Anna when there were two young pretty kitchen maids there but then I knew. Anna is married and not a virgin and the girls probably were so somewhere in his sick mind, raping Anna was ok.

  20. #180
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    Anna is not middle-aged...she's meant to be in her late 20s/early 30s...like the actress who plays her [Joanne Froggatt is 33]. Mr. Bates is middle-aged, and their age difference was mentioned by Edith when she was involved with Sir Anthony Strallan. She said something like 'you [Anna] and Mr. Bates are happy, and he's older than you [Anna].'

    Also, rape is not a crime of sexual desire as much as it is a crime of violence and control. The very young and very old, the attractive and unattractive, women and men and children have all been victims of rape.
    Last edited by dardar1126; 01-19-2014 at 01:50 AM.

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