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  1. #281
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    Tennyson was given a peerage for his poetry. Byron inherited his title. Guess which one would count with Violet.

  2. #282
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    Re: Bates/Anna. I don't completely get the "ignore your husband" in the most over the top way, but I do get the shame and the guilt.
    I can see Anna blaming herself partly because Bates had expressed his displeasure with her socialization with Green before that tragic night. So now she must be worried that Bates would say "I told you so", or perhaps her conscience said her husband was right after Green after all and she was wrong about him.

    I can see Bates blaming himself for not protecting Anna. During the incident, Mrs. Huges was wondering about Anna taking too long in the servants hall, and instead of checking on her, Bates just presumed Anna fell asleep. Whiile I don't agree with violence, I can see Bates trying to assuage his own guilt by taking matters into his own hands afterwards.

    In some way I like this version of Bates better than the one in Season one and two. The earlier version of Bates got bullied by his wife to an absurd degree (and I didn't get why he allowed it to happen), and this Bates, hardened by prison life, would bend rules to make things happen -- which is a more believable person. There have been early signs of this too -- Bates forged Moseley's signature to give him money, just to make Anna happy.

    Interesting that for all the angst about Mary and Pamuk during the first season or two, Mary is turning out to be the least scandalous of the three daughters.

  3. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemba View Post
    John Bates -- at first I was pleased to see how truly sad he was about the rape, and how completely understanding, compassionate, and supportive he was. But, once again, he is determined to "protect Anna's honor" by doing something Anna would hate for him to do. Why does his love for her always seem to sour into something in which he runs completely over what she wants?
    Maybe I'm naive, but honestly, I didn't get "protect Anna's honor" out of it. Yes, I know that would have been standard for the times, and maybe there's a little of that mixed up in it, but I read it more as "make the man pay for making Anna suffer." I think it's tearing him up inside to think of what she went through -- you could see it when he left Mrs. Hughes's room and then just stood there and cried.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Maybe I'm naive, but honestly, I didn't get "protect Anna's honor" out of it. Yes, I know that would have been standard for the times, and maybe there's a little of that mixed up in it, but I read it more as "make the man pay for making Anna suffer." I think it's tearing him up inside to think of what she went through -- you could see it when he left Mrs. Hughes's room and then just stood there and cried.
    I'm with you on his dominant feeling but think that honor did have something to do with it. I thought that scene rang true, anger and empathy and helplessness and leashed violence. The actor who plays Bates (whose name of course I can't remember) is very good. Besides, we are not past the time when a woman's honor is cause for violence, and not just in "backwards" societies either.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  5. #285
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    John Bates is played by Brendan Coyle.

    EDIT: Tongue-in-cheek recap...

    http://www.thirteen.org/program-cont...n-4-episode-4/

    THE DOWNTON ABBEY DISH – Downton Abbey Season 4 Recap: Episode 4 (aired 01/26/14)
    Last edited by dardar1126; 01-28-2014 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #286
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    I must admit I didn't consider this possibility:
    Or did Editor Charming leave her with a lovely parting gift? And what kind of gift would it be: One that requires penicillin or burping?
    Lord Tevye
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  7. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Lord Tevye
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  8. #288
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    I am picturing Lady Mary calling Cora on the phone, using a fake voice: Hello, this is Susan from Planned Parenthood. Could you please have Lady Edith call us? It's urgent.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  9. #289
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    if edith thought she was pregnant, i would think she would have been a little more concerned about the whole thing. she was as excited as someone getting a flu shot.

    did we ever see the wife or hear anyone else talk about her condition? maybe "my wife is nuts and i cant legally leave her" is old timey for "my wife doesnt understand me"
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  10. #290
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    Twitter:

    PBS ‏@PBS 39m
    Downton Abbey's exec. prod. talks about what happened on Sunday night's episode. (Warning: spoilers!) http://to.pbs.org/1mRHnHc #DowntonPBS
    Centering on the Violet/Isobel and John/Anna relationships.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamuno View Post
    As far as I can see, Matthew or the family did not know Carslyle before he was introduced to them.
    I agree. But the point I was making was that Mary sent her letter to Matthew telling him that she wanted him to meet Richard after Matthew and Richard's initial meeting. My memory is alittle fuzzy, but the timeline went something like this:

    Lavinia and Matthew came to dinner where Matthew met Richard and Lavinia said she already knew him.

    Matthew returned to the war; Mary and Richard got engaged.

    Mary sent a letter telling Matthew about the engagement, and saying she wanted to introduce him to Richard.

    For all this show's strong points, it makes really fundamental errors like contradicting its own timelines.

  12. #292
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    I think that happens when different writers work on each episode. I know they'll keep track of the big stuff, but there should be someone in continuity who focuses on the details, because fans certainly notice.

    Hopefully you don't watch soap operas I watched one for decades, and it would drive me nuts when two characters would act like they didn't know each other, when every fan knew they had had conversations in the past, or had worked at the same place, or worse yet - and this happened - that one of them was married to other's sibling ten years earlier so of course they knew each other. The big soaps change writers and producers and often even the actors playing the characters, and nobody bothers to map anything out - resulting in the classic devices of DNA test results being switched and characters having surprise twins that are supposed to explain everything.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    did we ever see the wife or hear anyone else talk about her condition? maybe "my wife is nuts and i cant legally leave her" is old timey for "my wife doesnt understand me"
    No, we've never seen his wife. If she's not in some way mentally ill, they're apparently mutually separated as she clearly doesn't live in the same house. (We also already had a genuine "My wife doesn't understand me" BS pulled on the much more gullible Rose, which Matthew neatly told her off for.) A British TV tropes editor refers to his wife having been "sectioned", which in American English means "committed", voluntarily or not. A better question is exactly WHAT is she mentally ill with? Again I really doubt we're dealing with a Bertha Rochester situation where she's clearly had a full psychotic break and is sneaking around ripping up wedding veils and making animal sounds.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Hopefully you don't watch soap operas
    Thanks for your insights. No, I don't watch any soap operas (my job always prevented me from being able to watch them).
    I guess I felt that "Downton Abbey" is of such high quality in so many ways, that it is quite surprising to see such glaring errors. It's also surprising to me because, unlike a soap opera that airs 5 episodes a week, Downton has only 7-9 episodes a year. So it seems like it is a lot less understandable for Downton to make these mistakes.

    The funny thing is that I don't look for errors. I'm someone who likes to really suspend my disbelief when watching a work of fiction (but I don't expect them to contradict themselves). So if these mistakes are jumping out at me, they should be very obvious to the people creating the show.

  15. #295
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    I agree. I do wonder sometimes if there's another issue than differing writers as well - I wonder if by the time they go through several drafts of the script, then it changes while filming, then it's edited, that the people involved in the show lose track of what made it to air and how it was presented - perhaps thinking they've covered something that then never made it to air, or not realizing something changed after the script left their hands. Again, there's no excuse on a quality production - there should be someone keeping track of this stuff.

    I recall on Lost, there were a couple of people whose sole job was to review scripts and point out when something wasn't making sense or contradicted something two seasons earlier or was out of character. They pretty much had to on that show given that many fans were pretty much breaking it down frame by frame and word by word.

    Sometimes it just becomes a joke - the dog on Revenge, the SORASing on soaps, or the time they went back to the original Becky on Roseanne, but I definitely see why it bugs you because it bugs me too.

  16. #296
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    Tom & Sybbie prepare her toys for the coming hurricane:

    http://cdn03.cdn.gofugyourself.com/w...10-419x225.png

    Mary finally cuddles George:

    http://cdn02.cdn.gofugyourself.com/w...12-419x231.png

  17. #297

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    Sybbie and George are darling. I wish we could see more of them, but of course there are all the difficulties of working with child actors -- which of course fits in nicely with the old "parents see their kids just a few minutes a day" idea that we're dealing with here. (I remember this being mentioned in The King's Speech also.) I wonder how the parents could stand it! I mean, obviously it would be awesome to have lots of help with the nitty-gritty of parenting -- diapers and vomit and food-flinging and "but why?" every five seconds and all the rest -- but this just seems extreme.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  18. #298
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    Those cute pix came from this clever tongue-in-cheek slideshow:

    http://www.gofugyourself.com/fug-the...-2014/img_4981

  19. #299
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    Re: the "hurricane" in the nursery ... I was watching Sunday's episode with a friend, and when Mary responded with "A hurricane? In Yorkshire?" my friend and I turned to each other and said, pretty much in unison, "In 'artford, 'ereford, and 'ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen."

    I'd be willing to be we weren't the only ones.


  20. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    Re: the "hurricane" in the nursery ... I was watching Sunday's episode with a friend, and when Mary responded with "A hurricane? In Yorkshire?" my friend and I turned to each other and said, pretty much in unison, "In 'artford, 'ereford, and 'ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen."

    I'd be willing to be we weren't the only ones.

    YES!
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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