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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    Ziggy, you wouldn't say that if you were at the forefront of developing IP that then gets stolen, replicated, and somebody else steals profits that should have gone to you. No IP protection ends up with few willing to go to the trouble to develop anything worthwhile.

    In the scheme of things, skaters wanting to use music still under copyright restrictions and having to get permissions is more of an annoying task, not a tragedy. It should be dealt with at the time music selections are being considered for an upcoming season, so any refusals are known about before effort is put into choreography. There is a Big World of music out there and there is plenty that is no longer under copyright and that is not Carmen or Swan Lake. There are also plenty of modern songwriters and producers that would be happy to have their work in front of a larger public audience, with proper credit given and/or fees paid. Not all of them are protective to the Prince level. I just don't see this as anything more than another item on the Serious Skater's checklist, like getting the costume made and the boots broken in.
    I'm in the middle: I'm all in favor of paying the rights owners, but I think that there should be a master database with pre-determined rights charges (which could vary based on type of usage) and a clearinghouse that would handle the rights. The current system is way, way too complicated and imposes a lot of costs on both the person trying to use the music and on the rights holder(s). It is much like the theoretical "use" taxes that various states and municipalities would like consumers to pay when they purchase an item on the internet without paying sales taxes: every time reporters have investigated this, it turns out that the computations are so freakin complicated that nobody in their right mind as an individual consumer would do it, but states aren't willing to enforce a simpler, uniform model.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    I'm in the middle: I'm all in favor of paying the rights owners, but I think that there should be a master database with pre-determined rights charges (which could vary based on type of usage) and a clearinghouse that would handle the rights. The current system is way, way too complicated and imposes a lot of costs on both the person trying to use the music and on the rights holder(s). It is much like the theoretical "use" taxes that various states and municipalities would like consumers to pay when they purchase an item on the internet without paying sales taxes: every time reporters have investigated this, it turns out that the computations are so freakin complicated that nobody in their right mind as an individual consumer would do it, but states aren't willing to enforce a simpler, uniform model.
    that is why in IMHO the organizer should be responsible for that. They are making money of that not the athlete. You cannot compare small senior B competition with almost no viewers to GP , EC or WC where millions (in my wildest dreams) are watching,hence the pay to artist should be greater.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    This is a great topic & question. I had been wondering about this, in light of the new rules (next season) allowing vocals in Singles and Pairs (not just dance). I tremble thinking of a U.S. Natonals consisting of nothing but Celine Dion and Barbra Streisand ballads...not to mention Beyonce, Taylor Swift, etc. I can imagine that the cost of rights for popular vocal recordings can be very high, especially if the skater makes a telecast - i.e., makes the final group at Nationals - and the tune is broadcast to a wide audience.
    The fees paid by arenas and rinks to generally broadcast music are the same whether I'm skating to some obscure local punk band or Beyonce. So that's not really an issue for competitions. It's only an issue if someone wants to make a recording of the competition and sell it at a later date. The fees paid to broadcast music over the arena/rink sound system don't cover rebroadcasts so ...

    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    The form is asking for permission from the composer, the performer, and the producer. If the skater is paying someone to produce and perform a version of the song, only the composer's permission would be necessary. That would get around the problem if the performer and/or the producer of the "other" version denied permission to use their version.
    It wouldn't get around it if the performer was also the composer. A lot of pop singers write their own songs. (Er, okay, maybe not a lot. But some do. )

    Quote Originally Posted by joeperryfan View Post
    This interests me from the point of view of websites. Let's say that I have permission from Eurosport to have videos of their broadcasts on my site (I don't, it's just an hypothesis), would I need to pay rights to anybody else to make it fully legal? What if it's an amateur video made by a fan?

    I've seen a great deal of rights infringement thanks to Youtube, even on tv I've seen some talk shows where the guests play a video(usually football related) and I'm pretty sure the rights weren't cleared or else they'd be playing from another source, and I've always wondered how a website should behave in this regard.
    The answer is: it depends, maybe, and sometimes.

    Seriously though, you've got several situations and rights issues mixed together. In the case of the website, you can't rebroadcast performances without getting the music rights. Whatever rights were gotten for the original competition do not apply to any future rebroadcasts. The exception is a news broadcast where the music of the performance is part of the ambient sound. That's just news and you don't need music rights to broadcast a new story. However if an entire video of an entire performance is played as news, that's a gray area.

    Though I don't see how it would be news. Maybe you'd see that on those morning "news" programs or the talk shows you mention, but that's not really a news story and replaying the entire performance is not really a news story. A real news story would almost always feature an excerpt only as part of telling a bigger story, not the complete performance.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    Ziggy, you wouldn't say that if you were at the forefront of developing IP that then gets stolen, replicated, and somebody else steals profits that should have gone to you. No IP protection ends up with few willing to go to the trouble to develop anything worthwhile.
    I agree. I was referring to music (and to an extent, creative arts in general).

  5. #25
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    I'm pretty sure this happened to Todd Eldredge once. He had to change out music becuase he couldn't get permission to use it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    I think that in Canada copyright is life plus fifty years. I recall a story about Isabelle Brasseur having to personally contact the singer/songwriter directly to get permission to use his song at the 94 Olympics.
    It wasn't for the their competitive programs that season. It was for their exhibition number, dedicated to Isabelle's late father, to Eric Clapton's "Tears in Heaven." If I'm remembering correctly, she wrote explaining her father's death and wanting to use the song for that reason. I don't know if he ever saw the performance live, but I seem to remember a commentator mentioning that he had been moved by B/E's program to the song or touched by Isabelle's request.

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