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Thread: Russian Ladies

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    They would have won THIS championships a few years back..Doronina, anyone...? Petushkova? Ievleva? Gerboltd? They were the cream of the crop like 6 years ago
    Exactly. When there is the depth and amount of talent there is among the current Russian ladies, very good skaters are never going to win medals and some will never get the chance to skate in senior international events. Russia has gone from poverty to riches in their ladies. It's unfortunate for some of the skaters, but that's the nature of the sport when your second and third tier of athletes are superior to many other teams/countries top tiers.

    This level of talent also makes it very difficult for skaters to have time to really grow and develop. Kostner has had the luxury of years because there was nobody behind her to push her out of the way. That's not the case for the young Russian women. You make a mistake and there's somebody younger waiting to pounce. They are all so young and are just going through physical changes but there is no breathing room. Tuk is only 17 and she has had a lot of physical changes that I think she can adjust to in time; however, time isn't her friend. The men, OTOH, have that luxury. Kovtun and Gachinsky have plenty of time to develop over the next four years, but some of the ladies will quit skating because the competition is so fierce.
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  2. #22
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    http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/671353

    Sotnikova wants to land quadruple and quintuple jumps!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I can't see anything wrong with "yet another 15 year old, going to her first Euros". Adelina and Liza did pretty well last year, both getting medals. Gosviani skated decently too, considering that it was her first big international competition. Unlike the others, she had not done JGP events or junior worlds so for her it was really big senior competition without any preparations with bigger junior or senior competitions. I remember what happened to Korobeynikova at Worlds in 2012, but on the other hand one must also remember what happened to Korobeynikova at Europeans in 2012.
    True, I wanted Pogo to get the spot and think she honestly deserves it more than Leonova and would probably do well/better than Leonova there, but I'm trying to give Leonova the benefit of the doubt I guess and trying to understand that there must be some reason Pogo's PCS were the way they were at Nationals even though internationally they are not much below the likes of Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova who both creamed her here.

    Idk, I guess it's just the shell shock of Anna's clean FS 124 score at TEB gets bumped down to a 121 at Nationals (and yes they were comparable skates, clean but labored in both), while Sotnikova's clean FS 129 score at TEB gets bumped up to a whopping 140 at Nationals (where she wasn't even quite clean), on the same day with the same judging panel. International judges thought Sotnikova was 5 points in PCS better than Pogorilaya that day, but at Nationals she's suddenly 13 points better. Makes me really wish Anna had just landed that axel in her SP at the GPF because then she would have beaten Adelina overall there, and not just in the FS (and that was with Anna having a pretty rough FS for her consistent standards), and maybe the judging at Nationals would have made a little more sense.

    Pogorilaya has been one of the top 3 strongest senior (or eligible - excluding Radionova due to age) ladies from Russia this season, one could even argue she was 2nd behind Julia due to Adelina being all over the place, and now she's not even going to Euros and probably won't make it to JW either. That is a dumb call on the RU fed's part IMO. Leonova is on her way out and doesn't have the content to be competitive with the top right now, and she's also inconsistent. Pogorilaya meanwhile is 15 and has the consistency and competitive mentality to really go places - and sure, I get she's gangly and a bit sloppy now, but she seems to have survived the worst part of puberty and her body type now suggests she might be one of the lucky ones who doesn't struggle mightily with their body as she gets older as she's long limbed and slender while also being strong, narrow-hipped, and not particularly tall. Eurosport already drools over how great she looks on the ice and how impressive her 3lz-3t is and yet the Fed is promoting Leonova instead - Leonova who is 23, has completely empty, transition-less programs, weak content, lines, and flexibility, little consistency or confidence, and has been on a steady downward spiral since the 2012 Worlds - um okay then.

  4. #24

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    Please. Your fetish for gawky, unpolished, junior-age skaters is all too well documented here.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Please. Your fetish for gawky, unpolished, junior-age skaters is all too well documented here.

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    Pinky166, be realistic. Anna has lovely jumps, they can be huge, but she is really, really unpolished and sloppy. When she competed internationally on junior circle, she stood out because she has all the hard jumps and jump combinations. At junior circle no one expected her to be polished. When she did GP events this autumn, there were not many seniors landing jumps, so she got away with messy presentation. Unfortunately for her, the level of competition at Russian nationals is much higher than at her GP events and also much higher than last year at junior worlds. So suddenly whatever Pogorilaya is showing, it is just not good enough. It is not enough to just land the jumps, because at least first 10 skaters that placed at the nationals (maybe even more) have exactly the same jumps. They all can do 3Lz-3T in their SP, they all do seven triples FS. So little things that may not have mattered last year at junior worlds matter now. Suddenly it is not only about landing, it is also about quality. For example that after quite a few jumps she did not have any running edge, that her presentation is a bit sloppy, that she hasn't obviously got used to her long limbs and doesn't know how to use her body so that it doesn't look all over the place... She definitely has a potential, but she is not quite there yet. I do agree that based on her results throughout the season she would deserve to be sent to Europeans more than Leonova; however, the Federation is choosing skaters based on the nationals, not on events throughout the season. Pogorilaya did not deliver when it counted.

  7. #27
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    I actually think Pogorilaya's skating is reasonably polished, especially in her SP. Her jumps are also high quality - good ice coverage on her 3lutz-3toe. I don't understand why Pogo gets low PCS throughout the series while Sotnikova constantly is rewarded. Watching Adelina skate is exhausting for me because she flails her arms so much and puts in lots of transitions in her program, but they all seem incoherent and sloppy. I don't think anyone codewhores their programs as much as she does - lots of transitions and complexity, but little of it is done well. Her music also appears to be "dampened" or put into a techno version so it is more a monotone, making it easy for her to skate to. I've never seen someone flail their arms so much and so ineffectively.

    Ok, done with my rant. I just find Pogorilaya underrated in PCS and Sotnikova overrated. Maybe there are reasons why they get the scores they get, but I don't see them.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    I actually think Pogorilaya's skating is reasonably polished, especially in her SP. Her jumps are also high quality - good ice coverage on her 3lutz-3toe. I don't understand why Pogo gets low PCS throughout the series while Sotnikova constantly is rewarded. Watching Adelina skate is exhausting for me because she flails her arms so much and puts in lots of transitions in her program, but they all seem incoherent and sloppy. I don't think anyone codewhores their programs as much as she does - lots of transitions and complexity, but little of it is done well. Her music also appears to be "dampened" or put into a techno version so it is more a monotone, making it easy for her to skate to. I've never seen someone flail their arms so much and so ineffectively.

    Ok, done with my rant. I just find Pogorilaya underrated in PCS and Sotnikova overrated. Maybe there are reasons why they get the scores they get, but I don't see them.
    Pogorilaya's skating still looks juniorish

  9. #29

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    But imagine what scores Pogorilaya might have posted if she were really polished - if she were consistently aware of her posture, her shoulder position, her hands; if she held out her moves and pointed her toes; if (to paraphrase Uncle Dick) she knew what the audience was looking at.
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    I actually think Pogorilaya's skating is reasonably polished, especially in her SP. Her jumps are also high quality - good ice coverage on her 3lutz-3toe. I don't understand why Pogo gets low PCS throughout the series while Sotnikova constantly is rewarded. Watching Adelina skate is exhausting for me because she flails her arms so much and puts in lots of transitions in her program, but they all seem incoherent and sloppy. I don't think anyone codewhores their programs as much as she does - lots of transitions and complexity, but little of it is done well. Her music also appears to be "dampened" or put into a techno version so it is more a monotone, making it easy for her to skate to. I've never seen someone flail their arms so much and so ineffectively.

    Ok, done with my rant. I just find Pogorilaya underrated in PCS and Sotnikova overrated. Maybe there are reasons why they get the scores they get, but I don't see them.
    I agree with you about Sotnikova's arms and I agree that she is overrated. Her PCS at nationals were a little too high.

    Anna, however, is rather unpolished. She won her GPs because others made mistakes and she skated nearly clean. I just think she needs more time on the senior circuit. She could have made the European team, if not the unexpected good skates by Leonova at the nationals. I don't think Anna is underrated. She does get points for her jumps, and I don't think that right now she deserves higher PCS.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    I actually think Pogorilaya's skating is reasonably polished, especially in her SP. Her jumps are also high quality - good ice coverage on her 3lutz-3toe. I don't understand why Pogo gets low PCS throughout the series while Sotnikova constantly is rewarded. Watching Adelina skate is exhausting for me because she flails her arms so much and puts in lots of transitions in her program, but they all seem incoherent and sloppy. I don't think anyone codewhores their programs as much as she does - lots of transitions and complexity, but little of it is done well. Her music also appears to be "dampened" or put into a techno version so it is more a monotone, making it easy for her to skate to. I've never seen someone flail their arms so much and so ineffectively.

    Ok, done with my rant. I just find Pogorilaya underrated in PCS and Sotnikova overrated. Maybe there are reasons why they get the scores they get, but I don't see them.
    I dont really enjoy Sotnikova's skating and her programs of late are just plain bad. However she does have impression speed, power, extensions, and performance abilities. Those are probably the reasons she gets high PCS, along with being the Russian fed. favorite. Pogorilaya is slow and hasnt developed her skating skills yet (they should come with age and maturity), and when you are slow your PCS are never that high, think of Lepisto who was such an elegant skater who got low PCS since she was slow and had no power.

  12. #32

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    I know that we are discussing mainly the ladies who competed at Russian Nationals but...why did the Junior G-P Champ, Maria Sotskova, not compete at Natls? Almost all of the other top junior Russian ladies who Maria beat at the JrG-P two weeks ago were there, so it's not a matter of having been ranked a Jr in the fall.
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  13. #33
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    Why did Sotnikova get no value on her final free skate spin at the grand prix final?

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    I know that we are discussing mainly the ladies who competed at Russian Nationals but...why did the Junior G-P Champ, Maria Sotskova, not compete at Natls? Almost all of the other top junior Russian ladies who Maria beat at the JrG-P two weeks ago were there, so it's not a matter of having been ranked a Jr in the fall.
    Because from this year there was a new rule that skaters under 14 years old are not allowed to compete at Russian senior nationals (although in the past it was possible). So while Medvedeva was lucky that she had been 14, it looked that Sotskova, Sakhanovich and Proklova won't be able to compete, although in theory they would have qualified because they qualified to JGPF. Only a last minute (about a week before the nationals!!!) a decision was made that Sotskova, Sakhanovich and Proklova were allowed to compete. Sotskova (or her coach) decided that they will rather concentrate on practising for junior nationals (which are in January) because junior nationals will decide who is going to be selected to junior worlds. As you know, there is six skaters who have a big chance to be sent (Radionova, Pogorilaya, Sotskova, Sakhanovich, Medvedeva and Proklova), but only 3 spots...

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Because from this year there was a new rule that skaters under 14 years old are not allowed to compete at Russian senior nationals (although in the past it was possible). So while Medvedeva was lucky that she had been 14, it looked that Sotskova, Sakhanovich and Proklova won't be able to compete, although in theory they would have qualified because they qualified to JGPF. Only a last minute (about a week before the nationals!!!) a decision was made that Sotskova, Sakhanovich and Proklova were allowed to compete. Sotskova (or her coach) decided that they will rather concentrate on practising for junior nationals (which are in January) because junior nationals will decide who is going to be selected to junior worlds. As you know, there is six skaters who have a big chance to be sent (Radionova, Pogorilaya, Sotskova, Sakhanovich, Medvedeva and Proklova), but only 3 spots...
    I think Radio and Pogo are automatic for the Jr. worlds team, based on their senior performances this season. I feel sorry for the remaining junior ladies who are so talented but only one of them can be selected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    Watching Adelina skate is exhausting for me because she flails her arms so much and puts in lots of transitions in her program, but they all seem incoherent and sloppy. I don't think anyone codewhores their programs as much as she does - lots of transitions and complexity, but little of it is done well. Her music also appears to be "dampened" or put into a techno version so it is more a monotone, making it easy for her to skate to. I've never seen someone flail their arms so much and so ineffectively.
    Thank you !

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I think Radio and Pogo are automatic for the Jr. worlds team, based on their senior performances this season. I feel sorry for the remaining junior ladies who are so talented but only one of them can be selected.
    I agree with Radionova, but I am not so sure about Pogorilaya. The thing is, all four Russian JGPF ladies are able to beat her. Three of them competed at senior nationals and all managed to beat her. She is more prone to do mistakes than they are. For example, in her GP events, she was messing up the axels. This four JGP finalists are very consistent; they mess up very, very rarely. So if the Russian Federation makes it according to the results of the junior nationals, she may be the one left home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I agree with Radionova, but I am not so sure about Pogorilaya. The thing is, all four Russian JGPF ladies are able to beat her. Three of them competed at senior nationals and all managed to beat her. She is more prone to do mistakes than they are. For example, in her GP events, she was messing up the axels. This four JGP finalists are very consistent; they mess up very, very rarely. So if the Russian Federation makes it according to the results of the junior nationals, she may be the one left home.
    Good point. I had forgotten about the junior ladies at the RN. I was only thinking of the senior GP series.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Thank you !
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    Thanks for the explanations on Sostkova, although it could very well be that *she* will be automatically named to Jr Worlds because she is the current Jr G-P champion, after all. I find it amazing that she would not want to show-off her skills and solidify her status at Nationals, unless a recent injury was sustained or something else is going on.
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