View Poll Results: What is your position on Chan's potential to win in Sochi if everyone is clean?

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  • Chan should win even if his skates never leave the ice.

    3 2.78%
  • Chan could fall/omit/downgrade an element and still be the legitimate winner

    14 12.96%
  • Chan currently has enough TES base coupled with his skating to win

    61 56.48%
  • Chan will need the 4S or another high scoring element plus his current content and skating to win

    30 27.78%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloveemoticons View Post
    I don't think Chan should be getting higher transition scores than Javi or Hanyu. Comparing their SPs, Javi has great transitions into both his quad and 3A, whereas Chan has none.
    Transitions isnt just about how many or how difficult they are, but how you perform them. Fernandez is stiff in his overall manner of skating, so doesnt do any difficult transitions he has that smoothly or gracefully.

  2. #62

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    Transitions are judged on Variety, Difficulty, Intricacy, and Quality.

    As I understand it,

    Variety would reward using different kinds of steps and turns, glides like spirals or spread eagles, nonlisted jumps, and body movements (arm, free leg, torso, head, etc.).

    Difficulty would consider the difficulty of attaching a move to a difficult element, but the difficulty of the non-element moves themselves would also be considered -- including for those that are not attached to elements.

    Intricacy considers moves immediately preceding jumps and other elements, but also moves on the exits of elements and direct connections from one element to the next. And any long telegraphing of elements would be a negative for this criterion.

    KimGOAT has talked about quality.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingguy
    You can't say that Kim had a lousy 2009 Grand Prix - she struggled at Skate America but she won all three events and set a couple of world records in TEB - if that's lackluster I want to know what amazing would have been.
    By her standards it wasn't very good. She was having nagging issues with her flip, and at Skate America she should not have won for what she did there.

    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Transitions isnt just about how many or how difficult they are, but how you perform them. Fernandez is stiff in his overall manner of skating, so doesnt do any difficult transitions he has that smoothly or gracefully.
    Can't do transitions gracefully if they aren't there to begin with.

  4. #64

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    He has a history of pulling off clean programs when he needs them to win the big events. None of the other top men are consistent, and I don't think a dark horse could upset a clean Chan because a dark horse wouldn't get the reputation points in the short program. As others have said if Chan skates a clean short the others will be hard pressed to catch him in the long even if they make no mistakes. If he skates well, I have no problem with him winning.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    Hanyu has the all time short program WR. On what planet would Chan have a 5-7 point lead over a clean Hanyu after the short.
    Perhaps, but that was Hanyu skating in Japan, and the Olympics are not in Japan--so don't expect him to get 45+PCS in Sochi, even clean and perfect. Hanyu's a great talent, and his Jeff Buttle Gary Louis program is safe to call a signature at this point, but I don't think 45+ is deserved for PCS. Especially since at every other event he's gotten nowhere near that score. And clean Chan, in or out of Canada, will score 98+ if clean and perfect. So there's that.

  6. #66
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    Looking at past scores, Chan's best SP score of 98.52 does not have a 5-7 lead over Hanyu's best scores internationally. Not counting his world record setting SP at the 2013-2014 GPF (though I don't know why the country in which the competition takes place matters for Hanyu but not for Patrick), Hanyu scored 95.37 for his SP at 2013 TEB, 95.07 at 2012 Skate America. If you don't want to count the last two SP scores Hanyu has received this season for a well-performed SP, then I don't know what else you can look at other than SPs in which he did not perform as well (or well at all). Even if Hanyu doesn't normally receive 45+ points for PCS in events outside Japan, a totally clean SP from him has not shown to be 5-7 points behind Chan at his best.

    I get it, Hanyu now poses a threat to Chan and people want to convince others and themselves that Chan is so much better than anyone else that him going clean will be so ahead of other skaters that it will afford him a cushion going into the LP so that he can make a few mistakes (which is normal for him in big events). However, I don't think deluding yourselves into thinking Hanyu is no threat or doesn't "deserve" high PCS will help in that regard. If anything, just take solace in the fact that Hanyu isn't consistent.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 12-18-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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  7. #67

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    If both Hanyu and Chan skate "clean" I think it will make a difference which of the two is more "on."

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