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  1. #61

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    Really really happy that the midline got a level 4. That made my morning, even more than the ranking. I want the old lift back though.
    "Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him."

  2. #62

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    I don't like the lift change. I absolutely love this lift, but it didn't fit the dance IMO, and it almost seemed like their timing was off in getting to the final pose.

    My video kind of froze in places right around the twizzles, but the second one looked fine, and then I saw it on the replay. Charlie was clearly out of time with Meryl, so I am surprised to not see them in second based on that alone. They seemed tense.

    But I like the FD better, so hoping for better tomorrow!

  3. #63

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    I can understand any team swapping out a change of pose rotational lift for a difficult position rotational lift, especially in the SD when only one lift is required. The tech panels have been very inconsistent, and some of them almost incomprehensibly picky, particularly on change of position lifts.

    The Fledermaus rotational lift is one they can get a lot of +3's on, and it is unequivocably level 4. And its a suitable ballroom lift for a ballroom quickstep-they just haven't got it as smoothly incorporated yet as it needs to be.

    I'm a bit surprised that they are ahead, given that Tessa & Scott had a great performance, and that wasn't Meryl & Charlie's very, very best. There is an advantage to skating last and having the crowd erupt into a standing ovation and throw flowers all over, I guess. And quite a few judges brought out the +3's for the rotational lift. It's curious that the PCS component they scored the biggest difference to Tessa & Scott was choreo & composition, I guess because MFL is a coherent concept, and they may have covered more of the ice surface than Tessa & Scott? Hard to tell on my computer?

    Choreography & Composition mark

    • Purpose (idea, concept, vision)
    • Proportion (equal weight of parts)
    • Unity (purposeful threading)
    • Utilization of personal and public space
    • Pattern and ice coverage
    • Phrasing and form (movements and parts structured to match the phrasing of the music)
    Explanation of phrasing, from the ISU PCS Explanation document

    A phrase is a unit of movement marked by an impulse of energy that grows, builds, finds a conclusion, and then flows easily and naturally into the next movement phrase.
    Form is the presentation of an idea, the development of the idea, and its conclusion presented in a specific number of parts and a specific order for design.



    • Originality of purpose, movement and design
    • Shared responsibility of achieving purpose (Pair Skating & Ice Dancing)


    I hope they have a really great outing with the FD tomorrow though. I think they can do a better performance of the SD than this. I'm glad they got the levels on both the Finnstep and the midline, though. That's the achievement here.

  4. #64

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    As much as I love and uber them, I don't know if I would have them in first. This was not their best performance of the SD.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmarie086 View Post
    On a much happier note, I may try to wrangle a trip to Nationals!! Who is going?
    I'm going, but only for the freedance.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by semogal View Post
    Pleasantly surprised on two counts this morning: I still have power (my area is in an ice storm) and Meryl and Charlie are in 1st! Knew it would be close but thought V/M might take the SD. Looking forward to watching the videos. But first, coffee while my power is still on.
    My fingers are crossed for you. I lived in New Hampshire during the ice storm of 2008, and we had no power for 3 days. But there were people in our area who had no power for close to two weeks, so in hindsight we got off very, very lucky. But it was still a miserable thing to experience.

  7. #67
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    Meryl and Charlie are strong this season. They don't need to over score them, it just undermines their efforts. I didn't like the lift change at all. The lift they have works better. They felt a bit off here performance wise. I wonder why they wouldn't be confident going into this competition. I wish I could be a fly on their training wall.
    Perhaps they're working on a different lift entirely and went with a familiar place holder lift? I'm just kind of confused all around.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxRose81 View Post
    As much as I love and uber them, I don't know if I would have them in first. This was not their best performance of the SD.
    I was so relieved they hit their levels on the Finnstep sequences and the midline. Especially the midline. I'm amazed they didn't get dinged on those twizzles, though. They got a couple of +1 GOEs, which I would have expected, but also I think three +3s. I watched the videos of both programs, but it's hard to tell sometimes when the stupid camera switches to that ridiculous overhead angle. I thought VM had a better, cleaner, smoother overall performance. But I thought MC showed a lot of speed and attack. They seemed to start out a shade tense--which you might expect, given the score VM had just thrown down--and relax more as they got into the program. I definitely thought their Finnstep was better than VM's, but they were almost even score-wise, only a smidge higher on I believe the second sequence. I loved their original lift and wish they hadn't changed it, but oddly the DF lift may have been what saved their bacon here: they pulled a lot of +3 GOEs for it. They also pulled higher PCS, which might be (as Doris suggests above) because of an overall more cohesive program. Or maybe just skating last.

    I'm glad they preserved their last-place position in the draw for the FD, though. That's the main thing. It goes to show you what a difference the draw can sometimes make--if VM had skated after MC here, I suspect they would now have the lead. But I also think if MC had had cleaner twizzles, they would probably now have a much wider lead. They will need an absolutely perfect freedance--they have left themselves no margin for error. The FD will be a nail-biter for sure.

    If the Olympics are anything like this, it's going to be a wild ride. One thing is for sure, MC are going to need a cleaner SD in Sochi than they had here. It wasn't horrible by any stretch, but even a tiny error can translate into a significant loss of points.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    Meryl and Charlie are strong this season. They don't need to over score them, it just undermines their efforts. I didn't like the lift change at all. The lift they have works better. They felt a bit off here performance wise. I wonder why they wouldn't be confident going into this competition. I wish I could be a fly on their training wall.
    Perhaps they're working on a different lift entirely and went with a familiar place holder lift? I'm just kind of confused all around.
    It could be Alex Wong's suggestion since he did work with them recently. On the other hand, I like the other little changes they made in terms of choreography.

    ETA :

    I took a look at the twizzle error. It's there, but not as horribly blatant as I thought, judging from the commentary being posted. It doesn't help when they switch to friggin' aerial footage midway. Gah! Stahp that

    I think musically, it's more cohesive SD. No sudden changes in the music. That said, it's super close. Just .07...having flashbacks to 2009 Worlds.
    "Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him."

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffeine View Post
    It could be Alex Wong's suggestion since he did work with them recently. On the other hand, I like the other little changes they made in terms of choreography.
    I did like the little changes, but not that one. I just have to roll my eyes at those who suggest that it was the worst SD performance ever. It wasn't their best and they should have been in second, but they didn't make any more errors than their competitors have made this season who've scored in a similar range. Sometimes I think judges enjoy feeding the drama.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffeine View Post
    It could be Alex Wong's suggestion since he did work with them recently. On the other hand, I like the other little changes they made in terms of choreography.

    ETA :

    I took a look at the twizzle error. It's there, but not as horribly blatant as I thought, judging from the commentary being posted. It doesn't help when they switch to friggin' aerial footage midway. Gah! Stahp that

    I think musically, it's more cohesive SD. No sudden changes in the music. That said, it's super close. Just .07...having flashbacks to 2009 Worlds.
    I agree about the camera angles. If you're trying to judge performance quality by watching videos, it's almost impossible when the skaters aren't in the frame. The slow-mo showed Charlie going a little wild and getting out of synch on the first set of twizzles. The second set looked better. Definitely not their best execution of this element, which is usually such a strength for them. I'm amazed they didn't get dinged a level, but maybe they just squeaked out the requirements for a level 4? Again, the camera angle makes it impossible to tell, and I'm hardly a judging expert anyway. I do give them credit for not letting the error rattle them for the rest of the program. But overall, the judges seem to really like this program. MC will need to hit all those elements cleanly in Sochi, though. It's so frustrating: they finally hit their levels on the midline, and then muff the twizzles. I can see a lot of early mornings at the rink doing extra twizzle practice in their future.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    I did like the little changes, but not that one. I just have to roll my eyes at those who suggest that it was the worst SD performance ever. It wasn't their best and they should have been in second, but they didn't make any more errors than their competitors have made this season who've scored in a similar range. Sometimes I think judges enjoy feeding the drama.
    No, the notion that it's like the worst performance ever is ridiculous. I'm staying out of any thread except this one: I don't need my eyes flamed out of their sockets, thanks very much.

    LOL about the judges. Sometimes I wonder if they cruise these boards and then collaborate on what marks to give, just to yank our chains.

  13. #73

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    I love it when my posts are getting referenced in other threads. Makes me feel so important

    OK, so looking at the SD outcome from another perspective. If both teams are absolutely perfect, they're going to be virtually tied. Marina..has done her job.
    "Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him."

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffeine View Post
    I love it when my posts are getting referenced in other threads. Makes me feel so important
    That's the problem with crazed fans. They can't make one comment, not even on a valid argument, without taking it to the most hateful extreme possible.

    In a way, I'll be happy when these two teams retire. The online skating community will be a better place.

  15. #75
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    makes me feel MORE important when someone points it out

    i know this is a d/w thread, but to say that it's being to the hateful extreme when people express frustration over some obvious judging inconsistencies--who's taking it to the extreme now?
    Last edited by zilam98; 12-06-2013 at 03:50 PM.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    In a way, I'll be happy when these two teams retire. The online skating community will be a better place.
    I used to feel that way when I was a Kwan fan. But...I miss the Kween
    "Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him."

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffeine View Post
    I used to feel that way when I was a Kwan fan. But...I miss the Kween
    I had to leave the Johnny Weir fan board in there after 2010 because the Evan-bashing was getting me down. I wasn't a huge fan of Evan's (I disliked the skater he morphed into after 2006), but the uproar after he won the OGM (and Johnny finished 6th) did me in. I pulled the plug on that, and my sanity was better for it. But there's always another skating rivalry (and uber-war), right around the corner.


  18. #78
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    Wow at some V/M ubers accusing us of downplaying D/W's twizzle error, because you know, it's not like some of them wanted to ignore Tessa's blatant mistake in the SD at worlds, or refer to it as a "minor error". I don't know why I go in there. V/M received a WR SD score before D/W skated, the highest SD of their career, they're just .07 behind, but they're not happy. Sometimes I think that it's more about D/W losing than it is about V/M winning. No matter the score they receive, it's too high, if V/M are in first, the difference is never big enough.

    I was surprised to see D/W in first, it clearly wasn't their best performance. I thought they would lose a level on their twizzles because Meryl stopped twizzling (is that a word?) before Charlie on the first set. I have said I have a slight preference for V/M's SD this season, and I was thrilled to see them skate it as well as they did because it's a great dance. It seems a bit ironic to me that the people who are their most die hard ubers are the ones saying that their career is over.

  19. #79
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    Guess I am in the minority but I like the change to the DF rotational lift. It never fails to give me goosebumps!! And I have always thought the previous lift with Meryl's leg across Charlie's thighs looked awkward. They have tweeked the end of their program in several places, no more stopping to pose at the change back to Dance All Night for example, so it was a bit rough with only a few weeks of training. I expect them to tweek it some more before we see it at Nationals and it will be more seamless I am sure.

    I really like V/M's music for the 1st and last section. They lose me in the middle. Like last year's polka, the finnstep just seems thrown in there and interrupts the flow of the dance for me. They execute it very well though. One of the advantages that Meryl and Charlie have is that their music blends and stays in character throughout.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitneyskates View Post
    Wow at some V/M ubers accusing us of downplaying D/W's twizzle error, because you know, it's not like some of them wanted to ignore Tessa's blatant mistake in the SD at worlds, or refer to it as a "minor error".
    That's because V/M are so much better than D/W that they have a cushion of 1-2 errors, but D/W have to be kicked to last place if they make an error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitneyskates View Post
    It seems a bit ironic to me that the people who are their most die hard ubers are the ones saying that their career is over.
    Yeah. Some fans they are! I think they are trying to jinx a win for V/M with all the handwringing. Insist that there's no way that they can possibly win and the skating gods will mix things up with a OG win, just to show everyone you can't mess with the skating gods.

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