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  1. #161
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    Link to all results: http://www.isa.org.au/Results/2013_AFSC/result.htm (I think Sylvia might have provided this already, but here it is again)

    Interesting to see the composition of the Tech team for the ladies. All except one are from NSW; isn't that where Kerry is from? I wonder if any of them are from her own rink.. I mention this only because someone a bit ago mentioned that NATIONALLY Kerry was favored over Han and that person was quickly dismissed. I'm wondering now if there is/was any truth to their assertions.. Hmm.. We will know very soon how this plays out and hopefully in the next few weeks the CAS decision. ISA has already affirmed their support of Han so who knows...

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    Link to all results: http://www.isa.org.au/Results/2013_AFSC/result.htm (I think Sylvia might have provided this already, but here it is again)

    Interesting to see the composition of the Tech team for the ladies. All except one are from NSW; isn't that where Kerry is from? I wonder if any of them are from her own rink.. I mention this only because someone a bit ago mentioned that NATIONALLY Kerry was favored over Han and that person was quickly dismissed. I'm wondering now if there is/was any truth to their assertions.. Hmm.. We will know very soon how this plays out and hopefully in the next few weeks the CAS decision. ISA has already affirmed their support of Han so who knows...
    Nationals has no bearing at all on the Olympic placement.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But such children often can't stand up to their parents when they turn 18 either.

    My objection to the "she's just a minor" argument is a general one to what I often see on this board. Which is if a skater who is 16 or older does something people approve of, it's all on them. But as soon as they do something people disapprove of, they get defended with "they're just a minor!" or, if they are 18 or older, we get "they are young!" I think that you can't blame everything Kerry does that you don't like on her parents while giving her credit for everything you do like.

    In this case, I very much doubt her parents filed this suit against her will. Or, if they did, that they would have bowed to her wishes if she were 18 and a half and not 17 and a half. I do think that 17.5 is old enough to bear responsibility for training decisions and that includes things like trying to get another skater disqualified from a spot you want at the Olympics.
    I agree you can't have it both ways, and I agree that if you can't stand up to parents/authority figures by the time you're 17 it won't miraculously happen at 18 - speaking from personal experience here lol. I think my point is I was so very much under the will of my mother that I had no will, no voice of my own, not even internally. There is no personal will, there's only trying to please. Whether this applies to Chantelle of not I have no idea. I do know that people grow up (or not) differently and in an deal world it might be nice if all 17.5 year olds were able to take responsibility for their world, and to say a very clear 'no' when appropriate, but that's not how the world is. I don't know Chantelle or her parents or her team, I just can understand how a 17 yr old would be still under the thrall of all the adults around her running her life. I doubt she hatched this plan.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    I agree you can't have it both ways, and I agree that if you can't stand up to parents/authority figures by the time you're 17 it won't miraculously happen at 18 - speaking from personal experience here lol. I think my point is I was so very much under the will of my mother that I had no will, no voice of my own, not even internally. There is no personal will, there's only trying to please. Whether this applies to Chantelle of not I have no idea. I do know that people grow up (or not) differently and in an deal world it might be nice if all 17.5 year olds were able to take responsibility for their world, and to say a very clear 'no' when appropriate, but that's not how the world is. I don't know Chantelle or her parents or her team, I just can understand how a 17 yr old would be still under the thrall of all the adults around her running her life. I doubt she hatched this plan.
    She did decide what she had on her twitter bio, though. And yes I believe it's a dig at Brooklee.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post

    It really bugs me when people see Australians born and/or living elsewhere as "less" Australian. I've lived overseas for more than a decade, and would take Chinese citizenship if it meant not loosing my Australian citizenship; I would certainly apply for permanent residency if I could because it would make my life a lot easier, but I am no less Australian. I'm hugely proud to be Australian. I don't (can't) vote, and I am no longer required to pay taxes in Australia. I also love China and will likely work here my working life. I know plenty of dual citizens and they are proudly citizens of both countries, but use whatever passport is most useful at the time (and cheer for whatever team is winning, mostly ) - good for them!
    This. I will never stop being an Aussie, even though I too don't vote or pay taxes in Oz, have 2 passports, and have lived in Canada for 30 years. I'm Canadian too it doesn't make less Australian.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    She did decide what she had on her twitter bio, though. And yes I believe it's a dig at Brooklee.
    Oh yes, I agree. From what I'm reading I not saying Chantelle's an angel. Sounds like a 17 yr old to me. And I don't give her a free pass. It does look to me as if she's behaving badly, but who are her role models?
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  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Oh yes, I agree. From what I'm reading I not saying Chantelle's an angel. Sounds like a 17 yr old to me. And I don't give her a free pass. It does look to me as if she's behaving badly, but who are her role models?
    There are plenty of positive role models around. We choose who to model, IMO, especially at her age, based on what we want and who we are, and what we want to be, what we seek. It's not as if her mother (and let's face it, we're talking her, since she's the coach, the former skater) is her only option. She's old enough, and able enough, to find a role model that supports her views. We're talking a girl who has been in the media, she done spots on TV (network 10), she's got options and is not choosing wisely. She's as desperate as her team, IMO.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 12-05-2013 at 12:01 AM.

  8. #168
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    Some 17 yr olds are clear and strong and able to make choices for themselves from a place of inner strength and integrity, some are not. I agree she's as desperate as her team - at least it appears that way - and I agree she appears to be making bad choices. I also think that if she actually really were able to find and follow a better role model she probably would, but then I believe that everyone who makes bad choices, whatever their age, would do better if they could. I also know that at 17 it wouldn't have occurred to me to be seeking out better role models. I was still a child.
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Nationals has no bearing at all on the Olympic placement.
    I know that; did I say it did? Anyway.. Let's see what happens at Nationals and then in two weeks CAS. Who was that poster that stated that Kerry is favored NATIONALLY over Han? I would like to PM them.

  10. #170

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    Why would she seek better role models? Her current ones are what she wants. She obviously thinks they can help her get what she wants (an Olympic spot). ISA provides (compulsory IIRC) counselling to all high level skaters who are/were team hopefuls, and monitoring and meetings are done to inform of the processes and discuss issues etc. OWI also provides counselling and psychology services IIRC. She's had options to deal with her disappointment; instead she behaving like an entitled, spoilt brat, not an elite athlete.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Why would she seek better role models? Her current ones are what she wants. She obviously thinks they can help her get what she wants (an Olympic spot). ISA provides (compulsory IIRC) counselling to all high level skaters who are/were team hopefuls, and monitoring and meetings are done to inform of the processes and discuss issues etc. OWI also provides counselling and psychology services IIRC. She's had options to deal with her disappointment; instead she behaving like an entitled, spoilt brat, not an elite athlete.
    ITA.. And shame on her parents for obviously being enablers..

  12. #172

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    Brendan Kerry article (it doesn't mention he is currently coached by Tammy Gambill in Riverside, California) - excerpt from the end: http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8766238
    While not a medal hope, Kerry says his routines have enough difficulty to match the competition favourites in the men's event with two quad jumps.

    "I have two quads, which is the most difficult trick.

    "Not many skaters have two in their routines, so hopefully I will be able to land those both."

    He said he was hoping to use the Sochi experience to set himself up for the 2018 Games in Korea.

    Kerry's 17-year-old sister, Chantelle, is still an outside chance to also make the team; challenging the selection of her rival Brooklee Han at the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) next week.

    Kerry didn't want to comment on her appeal.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But such children often can't stand up to their parents when they turn 18 either.

    My objection to the "she's just a minor" argument is a general one to what I often see on this board. Which is if a skater who is 16 or older does something people approve of, it's all on them. But as soon as they do something people disapprove of, they get defended with "they're just a minor!" or, if they are 18 or older, we get "they are young!" I think that you can't blame everything Kerry does that you don't like on her parents while giving her credit for everything you do like.

    In this case, I very much doubt her parents filed this suit against her will. Or, if they did, that they would have bowed to her wishes if she were 18 and a half and not 17 and a half. I do think that 17.5 is old enough to bear responsibility for training decisions and that includes things like trying to get another skater disqualified from a spot you want at the Olympics.
    I have only a very casual knowledge of Australian skating, or of this particular situation, and so am more comfortable not offering an opinion.

    However, I do agree with you on your general point. That is to say, if it is not reasonable to treat seventeen (and a half) year olds on the basis of an expectation that they have already developed a capacity for independent thought and action, and have grown at least a minimally serviceable conscience and moral sense, then on what basis do we allow them, only a few months later, to do such adult things as to vote, and to serve in the armed forces?

    I'm all for viewing the actions of those who are essentially young adults through the mitigating lens of inexperience, but to completely insulate them from moral responsibility is to patronize and infantilize them, something that most seventeen (and a half) year olds will be the first to protest.

  14. #174

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    I don't know either girl or their parents. My comment about being a minor was put in the same light as many other discussions we've had on this board regarding those under 18. We've also had many discussions about how the magical number of 18 doesn't automatically make one wise and all-knowing. My point is that the girl is young and may very well be strongly influenced by some people around her. Many very young people are easily influenced and it may not have taken much being said for Ms. Kerry to start believing she had been truly wronged, especially if it were parents or other adults she trusts/respects telling her this. I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle...
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  15. #175
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    Speculating here.

    After this event, Han and her team would normally have returned home to train in preparation for Four Continents, and any competitions (potentially including the Olympics, Junior Worlds and Worlds) after that. With the CAS hearing scheduled for next week, she and her team are not only losing precious training time, for anyone that has had to amend long distance travel plans at short notice, it is probably costing Han and her team thousands of dollars more to change air fares and accommodation.
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 12-05-2013 at 01:21 AM.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Speculating here.

    After this event, Han and her team would normally have returned home to train in preparation for Four Continents, and any competitions (potentially including the Olympics, Junior Worlds and Worlds) after that. With the CAS hearing scheduled for next week, she and her team are not only losing precious training time, for anyone that has had to amend long distance travel plans at short notice, it is probably costing Han and her team thousands of dollars more to change air fares and accommodation.
    If I were the Han's, if they win this case, I would sue the Kerry's for all the change fees they may have incurred because of this just to spite them..

  17. #177

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    I highly doubt any of Chantelle's young fans have any idea what is going on.

    I wonder if they thought through the possibility of Australia not having a spot, though. If Brooklee is found to have been not eligible to skate, Australia's spot should be forfeited, not given to Chantelle. It would not be fair to the other countries to just give the spot to someone else from Australia if Australia's skater didn't earn the spot fairly (by being eligible to skate for it).

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    I doubt she hatched this plan.
    Based on what evidence? I don't think we have any idea whose plan this was, who is pushing whom, etc. None of us are insiders into Team C. Kerry (to distinguish from Team B. Kerry) or ISA skating. All we know is there is a complaint. We don't know how it got to this point though or even what the evidence is. Heck, we don't even know what competition it was that Han skated at supposedly without permission.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    If I were the Han's, if they win this case, I would sue the Kerry's for all the change fees they may have incurred because of this just to spite them..
    Yeah, counter-claims!

    But seriously, I hope Brooklee has a good support system around her. It mustn't be easy to deal with litigation like this at a young age, when so much is at stake (i.e. you have been working your whole life up to this point, to fulfill the dream. the dream is almost a reality and you can almost touch it, but others are trying to take it away).

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Heck, we don't even know what competition it was that Han skated at supposedly without permission.
    It is believed to be the 2013 Hershey Open.

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