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  1. #41

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    What a bizarre case of self-entitlement by Team Kerry. Shame.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Why is it mad? She's Australian, and she knows she has a better chance skating for Australia than the US. Sounds sensible, rather than mad, to me. She didn't need to change citizenship, it was no hassle or expensive saga. She was born as much Australian as any other Australian, and as much Australian as American, according to Australian citizen requirements (she'd qualify for Australian citizenship by descent, even if she never lived in Australia and was born elsewhere as well).
    I think after this saga, the ASF should tighten or clarify this rule regarding citizenship to avoid further unhappiness among competing skaters.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I think after this saga, the ASF should tighten or clarify this rule regarding citizenship to avoid further unhappiness among competing skaters.
    anyone born to an Australian parent can have Australian citizenship. It is nothing to do with Ice Skating Australia; it is federal law. Brooklee was born eligible for Australian citizenship. ISA has no say in that; it's nothing to do with them. Brooklee is Australian. She didn't need to apply especially to skate for Australia; she's an Australian citizen.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 12-03-2013 at 08:59 AM.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I think after this saga, the ASF should tighten or clarify this rule regarding citizenship to avoid further unhappiness among competing skaters.
    What's to clarify? Han meets government qualifications for citizenship as written by Australian laws.

    Regardless of what you think of Han living in the USA, it is SHE who qualified Australia for an Olympic spot in Sochi. Hard to argue the citizenship eligibility of someone who earned the spot that Kerry would most likely have never earned on her own don't you think?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Why is it mad? She's Australian, and she knows she has a better chance skating for Australia than the US. Sounds sensible, rather than mad, to me. She didn't need to change citizenship, it was no hassle or expensive saga. She was born as much Australian as any other Australian, and as much Australian as American, according to Australian citizen requirements (she'd qualify for Australian citizenship by descent, even if she never lived in Australia and was born elsewhere as well).
    And ISA welcomed her with open arms and gladly accepted the extra JGP spots she provided for Aussie ladies with her placings and the Junior Youth Olympic Spot she won for Australia. She has in fact opened a lot of doors by skating for us and in following Cheltzie Lee helped lift the profile of Aussie Ladies further.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    What's to clarify? Han meets government qualifications for citizenship as written by Australian laws.

    Regardless of what you think of Han living in the USA, it is SHE who qualified Australia for an Olympic spot in Sochi. Hard to argue the citizenship eligibility of someone who earned the spot that Kerry would most likely have never earned on her own don't you think?
    Hard to argue the citizen eligibility since she's Australian. Nothing to argue about that. Spikeydurian might not like it, but Brooklee is as Australian as anyone born in Australia.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Has this ever worked out long-term for any skater or team anywhere when one attempts to use the courts to get a spot and/or tries to block a competitor from getting one?
    Fredric Dambier in 2006?

    If the federation and the Olympic committee have no issue with what Brooklee Han did, I really don't see what argument Kerry has. And this leaves aside the fact that Kerry has nowhere near the results that Han does.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Why is it mad? She's Australian, and she knows she has a better chance skating for Australia than the US. Sounds sensible, rather than mad, to me. She didn't need to change citizenship, it was no hassle or expensive saga. She was born as much Australian as any other Australian, and as much Australian as American, according to Australian citizen requirements (she'd qualify for Australian citizenship by descent, even if she never lived in Australia and was born elsewhere as well).
    Yes, I know she is a duel citizen. And it would be really mad if she was attempting to make the olympic team for The United States. I can empathise, however, with skaters that have grown up in Australia, with the many less training opportunities, who may feel bitterness towards her.

    That being said, I think she earned her spot. I think she is a good skater and happy she is (most likely) skating for Australia.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    I can empathise, however, with skaters that have grown up in Australia, with the many less training opportunities, who may feel bitterness towards her.
    There are plenty of people with Australian citizenship, who were born in Australia, and would love to be figure skaters but can't afford lessons, don't live near a rink, have parents who don't have time to take them to the rink. Brooklee is just as blessed as Chantelle, who has a family involved in the sport, and enough funds for more than one skater in her family; not many people can say that. If people feel bitter towards Brooklee because one of her parents was born in Australia and one in America, they could also feel bitter that Chantelle's family is wealthy enough to have more than one skater in the family, and a family history in the sport. Any bitterness is misdirected in my view, and a total waste of time and energy that should be devoted to skating, and not politics. Brooklee didn't decide where her parents were born; Chantelle didn't decide who her parents are and how much money they have.

    There can always be something to be bitter about; I'd rather them just skate.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 12-03-2013 at 09:48 AM.

  10. #50
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    Brendan Kerry now lives and trains full time in USA his results have improved dramatically since the move!! Maybe Chantelle should train with her brother! Brooklee is Australian and has the same dual citizenship as Cheltzie Lee.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Hard to argue the citizen eligibility since she's Australian. Nothing to argue about that. Spikeydurian might not like it, but Brooklee is as Australian as anyone born in Australia.
    Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I am not against Brooklee since she earned her spot and I have personally commented on her nice skating and send her good wishes. But I am against using harsh words on Chantelle. Secondly, the impression I get is that some or perhaps maybe only Chantelle is not happy that someone who was not brought up in Australia gets the opportunity to represent Australia. I am not aware how prevalent is this feeling and thinking within the coaches and skater community in the Australian Skating Federation. If they are happy with the current rule, then reaffirm its stand that all Australian citizens irrespective whether they have lived in Australia should be allowed to compete for Australia - period because this drama is likely to happen again in future. There are now so many families with dual citizenship and children who never live in their country of birth.

    Well, I should have know better, figure skating is all Now feel free to crucify Chantelle, I am
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Secondly, the impression I get is that some or perhaps maybe only Chantelle is not happy that someone who was not brought up in Australia gets the opportunity to represent Australia. I am not aware how prevalent is this feeling and thinking within the coaches and skater community in the Australian Skating Federation. If they are happy with the current rule, then reaffirm its stand that all Australian citizens irrespective whether they have lived in Australia should be allowed to compete for Australia - period because this drama is likely to happen again in future.
    Maybe I didn't make myself clear: Ice Skating Australia does not need to clarify federal law. All Australians, regardless of where they were born, should be treated equally. It's not an ISA "current rule" it is federal law. Everyone at ISA could be against it, but it's still federal law, and they can't go against that.

    And Chantelle's case with CAS has nothing to do with citizenship, by the way. There's a difference between eligibility and citizenship. There is no question about Brooklee's citizenship, she's got dual Australian and American citizenship.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post


    The ISU?! No way!
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Fredric Dambier in 2006?
    It was slightly different as it was about who would skate at Euros with the highest placing finishers being named to the Olympic team. And Dambier was initially named, then replaced by Contesti. It was also then that Dambier took the case to arbitration and won.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    kwanfan, CAS already agreed that Brooklee IS eligible, because it denied Chantelle's previous appeal against Brooklee skating for an Olympic spot. They decided Brooklee could skate for a spot, which was saying she is eligible.
    I haven't seen anything to indicate that the grounds raised by Kerry in the Nebelhorn complaint are the same as the ones in the Olympic complaint. If any athlete could file the same denied claim over and over again at CAS, disgruntled athletes could clog up the system, unless the review of the current complaint is pro forma.

    This suggests that either the grounds for the complaint are different or that CAS might view the Olympics spot differently than the Nebelhorn qualifying spot, even though ISA coupled them together in the qualifying criteria. Although an opposition party leader has claimed that the President of Lithuania granted citizenship to Isabela Tobias because denying it was unpopular and there is an election coming up, her official reasoning was that until Nebelhorn, T/S hadn't accomplished enough to warrant granting a citizenship exception, and she wouldn't grant it based on potential results. However, she stated that qualifying for the Olympics was a result that warranted the exemption. CAS could make a similar distinction, and in that case, declaring Han eligible for the qualifier is not declaring her eligible for the Olympics.

    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    If they are happy with the current rule, then reaffirm its stand that all Australian citizens irrespective whether they have lived in Australia should be allowed to compete for Australia - period because this drama is likely to happen again in future. There are now so many families with dual citizenship and children who never live in their country of birth.
    There are eligibility rules regarding citizenship, and Han meets them. There are no eligibility rules regarding residency. What is unclear about them? Why should they reaffirm anything?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #55

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    The Australian Olympic Committee press conference (selection announcement) will be streamed lived here tomorrow.

  16. #56
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    This is absolutely disgusting.

    Brooklee Han is a clearly superior skater and she has won the Olympic spot in the first place. Something Chantelle Kerry probably wouldn't have been able to achieve, based on her past scores. It would be extremely unfair if Han now lost her rightfully earned spot, based on a technicality.

    It makes me very sad because I have always supported Kerry and pointed out various positive qualities about her skating. She might not have the hardest technical content but she always had well choreographed and presented programs that stood out.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    If not, and if I was in control of the Australian federation, I would tell Chantelle that we wouldn't send her to Sochi regardless of whether or not Han is allowed to compete. Han is the only one who has earned a spot and we aren't sending someone else in her place. They are surely within their rights to do that, the Australian gymnastics federation didn't send a women's gymnastics team this year because they didn't feel any of them were competitive enough.
    If Kerry won the case, that's what the Australian Federation should do. It's not like Kerry would have any realistic chances of qualifying to the FS anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I hope one would careful with harsh words on Chantelle Kerry. We Aussies will decide what is good and right for ourselves.
    The actions of whoever has brought this court case are unsporting and in my opinion immoral. Whether it was Kerry herself, her mama or some particularly twisted 'birther' from the Australian federation, they have done a great job of presenting Kerry in a very bad light. And if it was Team Kerry that was behind this, their self-entitlement is what you should be rolling your eyes at.

    But yes, it's your federation's call.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 12-03-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  17. #57

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    As someone involved with the sport here and currently working here with Nationals, I think people need to be very careful about jumping to assumptions or making judgements about this case. I think some of the comments are pretty unfair about Chantelle Kerry as I don't think people have all the facts.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    What a bizarre case of self-entitlement by Team Kerry. Shame.
    ITA. They can join Team Galler-Rabinowitz/Mitchell who whined against Tanith Belbin's credentials back in the day. The WHINERS can whine all they want and, in the end, have to face audiences who love the skaters against whom they've whined.

    Be great in Sochi, Brooklee Han!
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    As someone involved with the sport here and currently working here with Nationals, I think people need to be very careful about jumping to assumptions or making judgements about this case. I think some of the comments are pretty unfair about Chantelle Kerry as I don't think people have all the facts.
    Which are?
    The Junior Grand Prix: Where skaters who "come out of nowhere" come from.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    As someone involved with the sport here and currently working here with Nationals, I think people need to be very careful about jumping to assumptions or making judgements about this case. I think some of the comments are pretty unfair about Chantelle Kerry as I don't think people have all the facts.
    The fact is that Brooklee won a place in the Olympics. She skated for a place and she got one. The fact is that according to ISA rules, whoever won the spot, would get the spot. Honestly I don't give a shit was Chantelle's reasons are, Brooklee won the spot and should be given it according to ISA rules. The fact is Chantelle didn't earn a spot, she didn't even earn a spot to skate for a spot. She's not fighting to go, she fighting that Brooklee shouldn't go. I don't even like the rule that whoever earns the spot, got it, but that was, and is, the rule, as was pointed out to me in the other thread.

    No one, not even you, knows all the facts, because they're not public and they're not being discussed for good reason. But I know enough to think Chantelle doesn't deserve to go; Brooklee earnt that right. Chantelle's desperate. And desperation looks ugly on anyone.

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