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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    The selection criteria is not in dispute as far as I can tell. Kerry's argument seems to be that Han isn't an ISA-eligible skater any more.
    I'm confused. If the crux of the Kerry argument is that Han isn't ISA-eligible any more--and it does sound like that's the legal argument her camp is trying to make--then why is the focus only on Han's alleged ineligibility for the Olympic spot? Wouldn't it be more legally consistent to proffer that Han is no longer eligible to compete at Australian nationals?

    The entire situation stinks and does seem like a desperation move--Chantelle on paper and when you watch videos of her skating, is so far not up to Han's standard. Since she's not yet an adult, I'm assuming this is the handiwork of Mama and other members of Team Kerry. Mrs. MacDonald, meet Mrs. Mitchell....

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  3. #23
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    Since by the criteria Australian Nationals won't be taken into consideration for determining the Olympic spot, and that's what Kerry wants, it won't help her to block Han from Australian Nationals. Unless there was another basis for trying to block Han from Nebelhorn, there's some reason she is pursuing this one competition at a time.

    Is this the international CAS? I don't see anything published under "Recent Decisions" involving ISA or Kerry on the CAS site, but there's a distinction between confidential and non-confidential cases. I'm not sure where they make the distinction: perhaps because Kerry is a minor?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #24
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    This is true, and thank you for making us aware of their process and transparency. But lets dream here a bit. We all know that skating and its following want rules and things they understand. Why wouldn't it be in the best interest of skating to level the rules across all countries and lay down the published selection for all counties to follow. Wouldn't this make it fair for every members skaters? Wouldn't this be in the same area of setting policy for who can skate, how old, etc... Why leave this sort of thing, open to the management skills of each country. I think this is the ISU's chance to make it fair for all countries and the rules. Thoughts?

  5. #25
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    Brooklee Han was actually one of my favourite ladies skaters from this past years World Championships. She got a great response from the crowd for her short program and everyone around me thought she deserved to score higher. She really lit the ice up, and in doing so won me over as a fan

    Now this....this is desperation at its worst and I have a few very choice words which I would love to say to Kerry after hearing this awful scummy news. As others have said, she's trying to take the spot from Han, as opposed for actually qualifying herself. Not to mention, it was Han who won the Olympic spot by competing well at Nebelhorn. If Han loses the spot she earned and it goes to Kerry instead, it will be a low point for me as a skating enthusiast this season.

    Shame on you Chantelle Kerry, shame on you. You are now the worst character in the whole of figure skating in my eyes (well almost as bad as Nikolai at least).

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    Would Chantelle even have a chance to compete in Sochi if Han had not earned a spot? Has Chantelle been to any competitions (Worlds, Nebelhorn or whichever was the qualifying competition) and placed well enough to earn her own spot? If not, and if I was in control of the Australian federation, I would tell Chantelle that we wouldn't send her to Sochi regardless of whether or not Han is allowed to compete. Han is the only one who has earned a spot and we aren't sending someone else in her place. They are surely within their rights to do that, the Australian gymnastics federation didn't send a women's gymnastics team this year because they didn't feel any of them were competitive enough.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    if I was in control of the Australian federation, I would tell Chantelle that we wouldn't send her to Sochi regardless of whether or not Han is allowed to compete. Han is the only one who has earned a spot and we aren't sending someone else in her place. They are surely within their rights to do that, the Australian gymnastics federation didn't send a women's gymnastics team this year because they didn't feel any of them were competitive enough.
    Now that is a very interesting thought. But previous comments on the forum seem to indicate the federation is pro-Kerry. Which leads me to another point of my confusion....As to the CAS, I'm unclear on the mechanisms and processes by which it works and who the parties might be--in this case I presume Party A is Chantelle Kerry but who is Party B? Brooklee Han? The Australian skating federation?

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    I hope one would careful with harsh words on Chantelle Kerry. We Aussies will decide what is good and right for ourselves.
    Last edited by spikydurian; 12-03-2013 at 07:21 AM.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  10. #30
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    How would Chantelle even know that Brooklee entered an event without the Federation's permission? Where is that accusation coming from? Is there some sort of rule in Australia that you can't enter US club competitions? And if that were the case, I'm sure Brooklee would have obeyed the rule.

    Brooklee's skating is really wonderful. I hope everything works out the way it should.

  11. #31
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    In the cases listed on the CAS website, it's usually an athlete or and athlete teaming with an organizations vs. a federation, agency, and organization on the other. Kerry wouldn't have a direct beef with Han in court, but she does with the Australian skating federation, if the Federation is breaking its own rules in treating Han as eligible.

    Results by Chantelle Kerry in the last two seasons to date:

    2012-13 Four Continents x Senior Ladies SP 13 Chantelle KERRY AUS 43.93 25.31
    2012-13 Four Continents x Senior Ladies FS 14 Chantelle KERRY AUS 74.18 37.57
    2012-13 JGP Bled Junior Ladies SP 23 Chantelle KERRY AUS 31.57 16.21
    2012-13 JGP Bled Junior Ladies FS 19 Chantelle KERRY AUS 65.19 32.64
    2013-14 JGP Gdansk Junior Ladies SP 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 42.92 24.56
    2013-14 JGP Gdansk Junior Ladies FS 8 Chantelle KERRY AUS 81.02 41.89
    2013-14 JGP Tallinn Junior Ladies SP 12 Chantelle KERRY AUS 43.87 24.92
    2013-14 JGP Tallinn Junior Ladies FS 18 Chantelle KERRY AUS 67.31 32.07
    2012-13 JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies SP 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 40.96 23.58
    2012-13 JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies FS 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 73.6 38.78
    2013-14 Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies SP 9 Chantelle KERRY AUS 45.81 24.33
    2013-14 Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies FS 9 Chantelle KERRY AUS 81.71 42.43
    2013-14 Skate Down Under Senior Ladies SP 1 Chantelle KERRY AUS 53.82 28.94
    2013-14 Skate Down Under Senior Ladies FS 1 Chantelle KERRY AUS 83.74 39.74

    She's made the Olympics/4C's TES minimums at all events except JGP Tallinn. She made the Worlds SP TES minimum at Skate Down Under, for once in 14 attempts.

    So far this season, her totals are:
    JGP Gdansk Junior Ladies 8 Chantelle KERRY AUS 123.94
    JGP Tallinn Junior Ladies 17 Chantelle KERRY AUS 111.18
    Ondrej Nepala Trophy Senior Ladies 8 Chantelle KERRY AUS 127.52 9 9
    Skate Down Under Senior Ladies 1 Chantelle KERRY AUS 137.56 1 1
    Han's totals have been:
    Nebelhorn Trophy Senior Ladies 5 Brooklee HAN OQ1 AUS 147.16
    JGP Ostrava Junior Ladies 11 Brooklee HAN AUS 135.45
    JGP Mexico City Junior Ladies 8 Brooklee HAN AUS 119.98
    Han has made the Olympics/4C's minimums in all but the JGP Mexico City, and the Worlds TES minimums 11 times in 20 attempts.

    In head-to-head competition,
    Four Continents 2013:
    Han-134.90 (12th)
    Kerry-118.11 (14th)
    Han withdrew from Skate Down Under.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I hope one would careful with harsh words on Chantelle Kerry. We Aussies will decide what is good and right for ourselves.
    Everyone is allowed to have any option of what is good and right, Australian or not. But many of the people in this thread, including those with harsh worse towards Chantelle, are Australian. I think Chantelle is a bad sport, I think she's got sour grapes, I think she has done nothing to earn a spot to the Olympics, and I don't have any respect for her as a person anymore. I will no longer watch her skating the same way, even though this is not about the skating, and that's what an Olympic spot should be about. I think it's terrible that her parents would let this get to this point, and like I said, I hope she looses dismally to Brooklee at Nationals and then is denied her appeal. She is not arguing she has earnt a spot at the Olympics, she's done nothing to earn it, she's arguing against someone else, who has earnt it, going, just because she wants to be handed the spot, "free" if you will.

    "We Aussies" don't get to decided, it's in the hands of CAS now. I hope they do the right thing, like they did with the previous appeal. They decided Brooklee could skate for the spot, now they should let her kept the spot she earnt.

    kwanfan, CAS already agreed that Brooklee IS eligible, because it denied Chantelle's previous appeal against Brooklee skating for an Olympic spot. They decided Brooklee could skate for a spot, which was saying she is eligible.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    This is true, and thank you for making us aware of their process and transparency. But lets dream here a bit. We all know that skating and its following want rules and things they understand. Why wouldn't it be in the best interest of skating to level the rules across all countries and lay down the published selection for all counties to follow. Wouldn't this make it fair for every members skaters? Wouldn't this be in the same area of setting policy for who can skate, how old, etc... Why leave this sort of thing, open to the management skills of each country. I think this is the ISU's chance to make it fair for all countries and the rules. Thoughts?
    It would be impossible to enforce consistent rules across countries, because different countries have different levels of development in their skating systems, different numbers of skaters at different competitive levels, and so on.

    Besides, the ISU does a bad enough job of screwing things up at the international level. It would be if it also had the power to interfere with individual federations' choices for who to send to competitions.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  14. #34
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    I think Brendan Kerry has competed in US competitions as he is based permanently in USA, I just wonder what makes Chantelle think Brooklee does not have permission from ISA, let's hope Brendan has had permission or this case could bite the family on the butt!!! This really is making Monica McDonald and Chantelle look like very very bad sports! Let's hope David Kranjec doesn't try this on Brendan!!

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Everyone is allowed to have any option of what is good and right, Australian or not. But many of the people in this thread, including those with harsh worse towards Chantelle, are Australian. I think Chantelle is a bad sport, I think she's got sour grapes, I think she has done nothing to earn a spot to the Olympics, and I don't have any respect for her as a person anymore. I will no longer watch her skating the same way, even though this is not about the skating, and that's what an Olympic spot should be about. I think it's terrible that her parents would let this get to this point, and like I said, I hope she looses dismally to Brooklee at Nationals and then is denied her appeal. She is not arguing she has earnt a spot at the Olympics, she's done nothing to earn it, she's arguing against someone else, who has earnt it, going, just because she wants to be handed the spot, "free" if you will.

    "We Aussies" don't get to decided, it's in the hands of CAS now. I hope they do the right thing, like they did with the previous appeal. They decided Brooklee could skate for the spot, now they should let her kept the spot she earnt.

    kwanfan, CAS already agreed that Brooklee IS eligible, because it denied Chantelle's previous appeal against Brooklee skating for an Olympic spot. They decided Brooklee could skate for a spot, which was saying she is eligible.
    Using harsh words on Chantelle is not going to right the wrong. 'We Aussies' is meant to be the Australian authorities who will make the decision. I think words like 'you are the worst character' is too judgemental on a young lady, and the people who are using those harsh words on behalf of Brooklee are not doing Broooklee any favours. It just gets uglier and uglier. I hope the Australian Skating Authorities will now come up with a clear cut guideline in future about eligibility so that there should be no future challenges.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Using harsh words on Chantelle is not going to right the wrong. 'We Aussies' is meant to be the Australian authorities who will make the decision. I think words like 'you are the worst character' is too judgemental on a young lady, and the people who are using those harsh words on behalf of Brooklee are not doing Broooklee any favours. It just gets uglier and uglier. I hope the Australian Skating Authorities will now come up with a clear cut guideline in future about eligibility so that there should be no future challenges.
    CAS is not the "Australian authorities". ISA already have clear, published guidelines, which Brooklee met. Chantelle is arguing that she met them while not being eligible to meet them. CAS already decided she WAS eligible to skate for a spot on the Olympic team, and actually it was already reported that Brooklee was going to the Olympics. Chantelle is now trying again, because she's a bad sport, not because ISA's guidelines aren't clear and Chantelle thinks she earnt the spot.

  17. #37

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    I agree it does seem like bad sportsman on Chantelles side.

    I also think it is kinda mad to skate for a country in which you neither live nor were born, but whatevs.
    I have actually seen Brooklee at the Ice House a few times.

    What happened with Jo Carter in 2006? Would have Miriam done any better?

  18. #38
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    Going back to Miriam Manzano ... I recall somehow that at least, in Manzano's case, she missed the opportunity to compete in 2002 (can't remember the exact reason why, but Stephanie Zhang was picked) and she also beat Joanne Carter at Nationals in 2006. . So I had a tiny little bit of sympathy for Manzano, especially considering that she made it to the free programme at Worlds a couple of times (in 2002, and 2004 I think) (Though I still thought Joanne deserved to go, having won the spot at Worlds in 2005 and beaten Manzano at the 4CCs, which the committee had set as the deciding competition. Joanne was always just full of fire and attack on the ice, and her free programme at Worlds in 2005 was just brilliant. The best skater that Australia has produced in recent decades IMO)

    In Kerry's case, I just don't see any strong justifications. She doesn't even have the World TES minimum for the free programme, by the sounds of it .........

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvster View Post
    Going back to Miriam Manzano ... I recall somehow that at least, in Manzano's case, she missed the opportunity to compete in 2002 (can't remember the exact reason why, but Stephanie Zhang was picked) and she also beat Joanne Carter at Nationals in 2006. . So I had a tiny little bit of sympathy for Manzano, especially considering that she made it to the free programme at Worlds a couple of times (in 2002, and 2004 I think) (Though I still thought Joanne deserved to go, having won the spot at Worlds in 2005 and beaten Manzano at the 4CCs, which the committee had set as the deciding competition. Joanne was always just full of fire and attack on the ice, and her free programme at Worlds in 2005 was just brilliant. The best skater that Australia has produced in recent decades IMO)

    In Kerry's case, I just don't see any strong justifications. She doesn't even have the World TES minimum for the free programme, by the sounds of it .........
    Ahh k, I always wondered what happened. Thanks

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    I also think it is kinda mad to skate for a country in which you neither live nor were born, but whatevs.
    Why is it mad? She's Australian, and she knows she has a better chance skating for Australia than the US. Sounds sensible, rather than mad, to me. She didn't need to change citizenship, it was no hassle or expensive saga. She was born as much Australian as any other Australian, and as much Australian as American, according to Australian citizen requirements (she'd qualify for Australian citizenship by descent, even if she never lived in Australia and was born elsewhere as well).

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