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  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Hey, at least none of OUR skaters have ever physically assaulted another to try and manipulate the Olympic selection...
    The fact you lowered the bar to say her approach is at least better than Harding's in 1994 should tell you a few things.

  2. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    We're not talking about other sports or athletes. If everyone does the wrong thing, it's still wrong. And my logic is not flawed. I think she knew she couldn't win, she didn't want to lose because she thinks it would look bad for her appeal, and so she withdrew. Her skate would have proved everyone's point: she's not worthy of the Olympic spot.
    No. What looks bad is withdrawing to avoid a skater. I doubt Chantelle would have done anything to jeapordise her appeal on purpose; therefore, I believe she is sick. Why should she have been afraid of losing to Brooklee? She beat Brooklee last year, and there have been enough dark mutterings that the Australian judges favour Chantelle. (Not to say that I believe them.) Chantelle stood absolutely nothing to gain by withdrawing. She also stood nothing to gain by skating while ill. She chose the lesser of two evils and is still getting lambasted for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    The fact you lowered the bar to say her approach is at least better than Harding's in 1994 should tell you a few things.
    Should it? The bar is pretty bloody low in here. I may not agree with how Chantelle is going about things, but the amount of abuse and vitriol hurled at her in this thread is nothing short of disgusting. You would think she HAD actually taken a lead pipe to Brooklee the way people are talking about her in here.

  3. #223
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    Well, we don't know what happened. Chantelle Kerry might have suddenly fallen ill, you never know. I am not surprised to see most people questioning that, however, given her actions in bringing the legal case twice have made her lose the goodwill she might have once had.

  4. #224

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    misskarne, you've seen Brooklee's scores - do you honestly think Chantelle could have beaten her?

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    ^These things tend to work both ways. Saying there were a handful of incidents (if that) where skaters did worse-thought-out things isn't exactly compelling evidence. I can understand you'd be frustrated since the overall tone of the thread is way worse then when the appeal first started. But bringing up the worst skating assault from 20 years ago in a different country doesn't seem like the right way to try and create perspective. If the issue is that things are getting blown out of proportion, pretty sure a reference 94 and all the media frenzy that followed isn't exactly a safe bet to bring the discussion back to normal.

    Maybe you've seen Chantelle at local events and she does things for the local skating community that would explain why she could have more support locally? Would they both skate at 4CC or is Brooklee skipping that to focus on Sochi?

  6. #226

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    It makes a better story if Kerry's withdrawal is all part of a nefarious scheme than if it's an unplanned anticlimax to what would have been an interesting showdown on the ice.

    But this is real life, so who knows?

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It makes a better story if Kerry's withdrawal is all part of a nefarious scheme than if it's an unplanned anticlimax to what would have been an interesting showdown on the ice.
    Skating fans go so far as to suggest and then ? Nevah. Not once did I notice that, not in all my years of skating fandom.

  8. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    misskarne, you've seen Brooklee's scores - do you honestly think Chantelle could have beaten her?
    I don't know. I don't know what kind of performance Chantelle would have put on the ice. Nor do I know what kind of performance Brooklee would have put in had Chantelle been there. Chantelle is capable of scoring reasonably big.

    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    Maybe you've seen Chantelle at local events and she does things for the local skating community that would explain why she could have more support locally? Would they both skate at 4CC or is Brooklee skipping that to focus on Sochi?
    I have only seen Chantelle live once, at Skate DownUnder. She was absolutely lovely, very elegant, extended, not too bad jumps. In the short program she was magic. Her long program, not so great. And therein perhaps lies the rub. But for four points more ISA would have had an even bigger headache on their hands, and Chantelle's appeal would be grounded in concrete criteria.

    I have never seen Brooklee live. But I would think that perhaps it is logical that a skater who is seen regularly by judges and officials would perhaps have better standing with them than a skater who spends 90% of the year away from Australia. Obviously, it is not Brooklee's fault that she was born, raised, and has always lived in America, and I can't fault her choice for staying there. But Chantelle's physical presence may give her an advantage - though I do not doubt that any such advantage would be subconscious, and not a deliberate action of any of the above.

    As an aside - I had the pleasure of meeting Brendan Kerry at SDU. He was very polite, well-spoken, and lovely. I have not met Chantelle.

    As for 4CCs, I don't know. It's close enough to Sochi that I think Brooklee would be reasonably allowed to skip it, but she may want to go for the competitive outing. Chantelle will almost certainly be there. I don't know who else will be, Taylor Dean maybe - Kailani is still a Junior. I was interested to see how tight it was between positions 3-5 after the short program. I do not think the order was correct after the SP, but I am not a judge.

  9. #229

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    I have come back to this thread after reading comments in the Aust Nationals thread about people claiming that Chantelle withdrawing was not genuine.

    As I said in the other thread, I actually spoke with her today. She has been sick for the last week and looked pretty much like death warmed up but she was feeling better today. Those who have said it wasn't genuine shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions, particularly when you are not there and actually don't know the full story. That is how bullsh*t rumours start.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  10. #230
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    Chantelle can't do flip or lutz, and has a history of scoring far less overseas than brooklee does.

    How could you think that with brooklees performances in practices and both events this week that Chantelle would have a chance against Brooklees technical abilities.

    That aside, i think all of this showed that Brooklee is clearly the skater who can handle the pressure and competition better, you don't think she had just as much pressure on her as Chantelle, yet she didn't let it show one bit, she came in and did her job then left. Showing the true qualities of an olympic skater.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I have come back to this thread after reading comments in the Aust Nationals thread about people claiming that Chantelle withdrawing was not genuine.

    As I said in the other thread, I actually spoke with her today. She has been sick for the last week and looked pretty much like death warmed up but she was feeling better today. Those who have said it wasn't genuine shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions, particularly when you are not there and actually don't know the full story. That is how bullsh*t rumours start.
    I was there. I also spoke to her, her coach, the ASADA medical representative, and a handful of judges... and Brooklee...

    But i guess we can all take your "looked pretty much like death" as fact and proof, shame on us for thinking otherwise.

  12. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    I was there. I also spoke to her, her coach, the ASADA medical representative, and a handful of judges... and Brooklee...

    But i guess we can all take your "looked pretty much like death" as fact and proof, shame on us for thinking otherwise.
    To be fair, based on both of your posts alone, I'd be more willing to take Aussie Willy's word/view on something over yours so...

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I am not surprised to see most people questioning that, however, given her actions in bringing the legal case twice have made her lose the goodwill she might have once had.
    I'm not surprised either. Because people suck.

    But really, most athletes don't like to skip competitions and they don't tweet about feeling sick leading up to them just to play mind games. They are more likely to pretend not to be sick or skate with an injury when they shouldn't than pretend to be sick.

    I'm frequently befuddled by the thought processes that fans attribute to athletes. They mostly want to put it out there on the playing field and do their best every time. They may substitute a jump for strategic purposes but all of the plotting and Machiavelli machinations that people attribute to them says more about the fans than the skaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    And for those who say Chantelle is young, she'll have another chance...she may not. Australia doesn't have guaranteed spots.
    And you never know what will happen. She could have career-ending injury or her life could simply take a different path.

    That said, I think this attempt to get on the team is misguided and not the way to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    But for four points more ISA would have had an even bigger headache on their hands, and Chantelle's appeal would be grounded in concrete criteria.
    No, it wouldn't. If Kerry had beaten her when it counted, she would have gone to Nebelhorn and there would have been no appeal. But after Han went to Nebelhorn and won the spot, the rules are clear. She gets to use it. The results of Australian Nationals are irrelevant.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  14. #234
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    People were willing to say that Han withdrew from Skate Down Under to avoid competing in Australia against Kerry head-to-head over the chance to skate at Nebelhorn, and I don't see why it's surprising that people believe that Kerry withdrew from Nationals to avoid results that could impact her CAS case. Not that that would be correct, because the only thing the CAS can rule on is the basis for the case that was rejected by the ISA tribunal, which is whether Han is eligible to be chosen by ISA because she broke ISA rules to compete without ISA permission. Kerry isn't claiming that there's something wrong with the selection criteria, like Manzano did.

    Whether Kerry was actually ill is a separate issue. She *may* not have wanted to compete against Han, but that doesn't mean she would have faked illness to avoid it.

    As far as the idea that Kerry has four years, I agree that there's no guarantee whatsoever. Elene Gedevanishvili's coach wuzrobbing her like crazy after the Torino SP. She never fulfilled that potential, and she didn't have a skater in front of her as Georgia #1 who would get more recognition from the international judges. After Vancouver, it looked like the only team that could beat S/S was itself. Four years later and Volosozhar/Trankov are dominating.

    For that matter, this might be Han's last chance. She's deferred Wesleyan for a year, but once she's a full-time student, who knows whether she can keep up both school work and world-level skating, and the young ones coming up the pike in Australia will be her competition, too.
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  15. #235

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    Australian Champions Crowned (recap article with quotes from O'Brien/Merriman, Brendan Kerry and Brooklee Han): http://sochi2014.olympics.com.au/new...mpions-crowned
    Last sentence bolded by me below:
    Representing Victoria, Brooklee Han won her first senior national title, grabbing top spot in the senior ladies’ event with a combined score of 161.42.

    “It’s really exciting,” 18-year-old Han said. “It’s my first national title so I’m happy with that.”

    After falling on her first jump, Han recovered to put together a strong free skate to earn 102.81.

    “Overall it was not perfect,” she said. “I’ve been training it much better and it went a lot better this morning in practice. But there were parts of it that I was very happy with. After falling on the first [jump] I was happy to get the second one down in combination.”

    Falling is a part and parcel of figure skating, but how the athlete recovers is paramount to their overall performance.

    “Sometimes it can be tough,” Han said. “There’s a quote from another skater that I like to think of though – ‘Every program begins again with every new element’. If you make a mistake, it’s in the past and you have to move on.

    “I have a lot to take with me from this competition. I am trying to push myself faster into jumps. This was a nice event and different to others I have skated in. I hope to take the positive energy from the crowd home with me for the rest of the season.”

    All four national champions will now return to their training bases in the USA as they prepare for their next big competition, the Four Continents Championships taking place in Taipei from 20 – 26 January.
    Connecticut article on Han winning the national title: http://danbury.dailyvoice.com/sports...g-championship
    Excerpt:
    REDDING, Conn. – Redding's Brooklee Han won her first Australian Senior Ladies figure skating title and posted a personal best score early Friday in Melbourne. Now, she has to await word on whether she will be allowed to represent the country in the Winter Olympics in Sochi in February.
    ...
    Unfortunately for Han, she will have to wait to learn her Olympic fate. The Australians had planned to announce their ladies skater Wednesday. The selection, however, will not be announced until next week at the earliest. The dispute is set for a hearing next week before the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Australia.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-06-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I'm frequently befuddled by the thought processes that fans attribute to athletes. They mostly want to put it out there on the playing field and do their best every time. They may substitute a jump for strategic purposes but all of the plotting and Machiavelli machinations that people attribute to them says more about the fans than the skaters.
    Thankyou.



    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    That said, I think this attempt to get on the team is misguided and not the way to do it.
    And I agree. But I still understand that she is desperate to go which is why she is doing it, and again, she is hardly the first athlete in any sport to act this way. Somehow it's becoming a big drama blow-up just because it happens to be figure skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    No, it wouldn't. If Kerry had beaten her when it counted, she would have gone to Nebelhorn and there would have been no appeal. But after Han went to Nebelhorn and won the spot, the rules are clear. She gets to use it. The results of Australian Nationals are irrelevant.
    Sorry, that's my after-midnight typing for you - I meant had she got the score the ISA still sent Han.

  17. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    And I agree. But I still understand that she is desperate to go which is why she is doing it, and again, she is hardly the first athlete in any sport to act this way. Somehow it's becoming a big drama blow-up just because it happens to be figure skating.
    This is not "becoming a big drama blow-up just because it happens to be figure skating" - these "big drama blow-ups" happen in every sport. This happens to be a figure skating board, so it's more likely that the drama posted here is related to figure skating.

  18. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    This is not "becoming a big drama blow-up just because it happens to be figure skating" - these "big drama blow-ups" happen in every sport. This happens to be a figure skating board, so it's more likely that the drama posted here is related to figure skating.
    Maybe so. But the level of vitriol in this thread is unsettling. One would think Chantelle HAD whacked Brooklee; or that she was some vile coach who forced her students to skate injured, with the abuse and language being used about her in this thread.

  19. #239

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    As for Brooklee's withdrawal from Skate Down Under, I was involved in that as well and that was genuine too. So I would again suggest people stop making bullsh*t rumours.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But really, most athletes don't like to skip competitions and they don't tweet about feeling sick leading up to them just to play mind games.
    Who said anything about mind games?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I'm frequently befuddled by the thought processes that fans attribute to athletes. They mostly want to put it out there on the playing field and do their best every time. They may substitute a jump for strategic purposes but all of the plotting and Machiavelli machinations that people attribute to them says more about the fans than the skaters.
    There is nothing machiavellan about withdrawing from a competition because you have crumbled under stress and pressure.

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