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  1. #1

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    Australian dispute over women's Olympic spot to have Court of Arbitration hearing

    http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/arti...-berth-appeal/
    Excerpt:
    Official selection of one of the first athletes for Australia's Winter Olympics team is on ice with a dispute over the women's figure skating spot set for a Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) hearing next week.

    The Australian Olympic Committee was expected to announce all of its figure skating positions on Wednesday in Melbourne but will now only present men's competitor Brendan Kerry and ice dancing couple Danielle O'Brien and Greg Merriman as the first athletes confirmed for the Sochi Games in February.

    Chantelle Kerry, Brendan's sister and fellow figure skating hopeful, will argue that Brooklee Han should be ineligible for Sochi because she entered an event without the approval of the national federation.

    Han was born and raised in the US but qualifies for Australia through her father.

    It's not the first time Kerry, daughter of 1988 Winter Olympian Monica MacDonald, has taken issue over Han.

    In August she was unsuccessful in a CAS appeal in which she argued that Han should not be allowed to attend a Games qualifying event in Germany, a meet which ultimately earned the Connecticut-based skater a spot for the Winter Olympics.
    Was the Hershey Open, a club competition in Pennsylvania, the event Han entered without the approval of the national federation? I mentioned Han's participation in the Hershey Open earlier in the Aussie Skating thread where this topic first surfaced as hearsay: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4038500

    ETA revised wording (bolded by me below) in an updated version of the the article:
    In August she was unsuccessful at another appeals tribunal in which she argued that Han should not be allowed to attend a Games qualifying event in Germany, a meet which ultimately earned the Connecticut-based skater a spot for the Winter Olympics.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-03-2013 at 11:10 PM. Reason: To add updated version of article
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #2

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    Oh no, deja vu for Oz....
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

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    I have not seen chantelle skate ... but I just wanna say that Brooklee Han really skated brilliantly at Nelbelhorn trophy. One can even argue that she should have earned the spot in Vancouver last year, without going to Nelbelhorn.

    This reminds me a little bit of the saga between Miriam Manzano and Joanne Carter in 2006 ...

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    Sorry to me, but this wreaks of desperation and trying to take the spot away from someone who has rightfully earned it. Brooklee has skated brilliantly for herself this season to qualify the spot for Australia and in winning in Riga. Sorry Chantelle, but you haven't earned it and trying to play politics and take a spot away from a skater who has rightfully earned it.
    Kyle

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    Chantelle

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    I think fighting against someone else going is really sour grapes, rather than fighting that you should go. Chantelle hasn't earn it. She lost the CAS Appeal, and Brooklee was allowed to skate for a spot, which she ultimately won. It would be dreadful if CAS rejected that appeal, but not this one; to let Brooklee skate for a spot, but then not let her keep that spot, would be terrible. They let her qualify.

    I hope Brooklee gets the spot, after kicking Chantelle's arse at Nationals. I will never watch Chantelle's skating the same way again; she's not fighting to go, she's fighting for someone else not to go so she can go. She's not arguing that she's done anything to earn the spot because she hasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylet3 View Post
    Sorry to me, but this wreaks of desperation and trying to take the spot away from someone who has rightfully earned it. Brooklee has skated brilliantly for herself this season to qualify the spot for Australia and in winning in Riga. Sorry Chantelle, but you haven't earned it and trying to play politics and take a spot away from a skater who has rightfully earned it.
    Totally does.. When is a decision expected in this? Such an unnecessary distraction for Brooklee.

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    I'm really hoping this is ended with a decisive victory by Brooklee over Chantelle, but as some have posted, due to politics, that might not be a sure thing which to me is disappointing. The results should be determined by what happens on the ice, not by internal politics. That being said, I'd hopefully expect a decision on this in the next week or so.
    Kyle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvster View Post
    I have not seen chantelle skate ... but I just wanna say that Brooklee Han really skated brilliantly at Nelbelhorn trophy. One can even argue that she should have earned the spot in Vancouver last year, without going to Nelbelhorn.

    This reminds me a little bit of the saga between Miriam Manzano and Joanne Carter in 2006 ...
    You would think Skate Australia would've learned from the Manzano/Carter drama.. How is this supposed to positively promote the sport? Also, if Brooklee is confirmed, what typee of team camaraderie can be expected between Brooklee and Brendan?? SMDH..

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    You would think Skate Australia would've learned from the Manzano/Carter drama.. How is this supposed to positively promote the sport? Also, if Brooklee is confirmed, what typee of team camaraderie can be expected between Brooklee and Brendan?? SMDH..
    Ice Skating Australia can't do anything about appeals to CAS though, I don't think. And Brooklee and Chantelle have never got along from the sounds of it; this is Chantelle's second appeal now; it sounds like there's no love lost between them. Chantelle doesn't care about positively promoting the sport; she wants to go to the Olympics far more than she cares about what this is doing for the sport in Australia. And ultimately it's not going to change participation or anything for figure skating, it'll more make Chantelle look bad (and maybe also ISA) than anything else.

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    Brooklee earned a spot for the youth Olympic games by placing really well on the JGP and Chantelle got the spot since Brooklee was a year to old. Brooklee already earned Chantelle a spot to one games, I'm hoping she gets to keep the other.

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    This is not good for the sport at all. We talked about this somewhat in the Philippine thread where issues arose and were handled differently. I am curious, not knowing as much about these disputes in the land down under. Could it have been handled differently if the Aust skating union would have been more transparent and laid out the choice criteria in a well written from? The issue with some of the skating members is that things are kept somewhat selective. I know in the US, it is not a measurement that is out in the open for everyone to see, and can be manipulated at Nationals which everyone this year thinks will happen. Do you all think the ISU should lay out the selection process for the olympics therefore taking the control away from the countries?

    They most recently changed the TES scores to perfect who goes. What would happen if the ISU set the rules say based on world standing or total points earned in a season etc.

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    Has this ever worked out long-term for any skater or team anywhere when one attempts to use the courts to get a spot and/or tries to block a competitor from getting one?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    This is not good for the sport at all. We talked about this somewhat in the Philippine thread where issues arose and were handled differently. I am curious, not knowing as much about these disputes in the land down under. Could it have been handled differently if the Aust skating union would have been more transparent and laid out the choice criteria in a well written from?
    Unlike the Philippines, Australia has published detailed criteria for selection to both the Olympic qualifying competition (2013 Nebelhorn Trophy) and the Olympics - refer to the links posted here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4038500

    Do you all think the ISU should lay out the selection process for the olympics therefore taking the control away from the countries?
    The ISU?! No way!
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-03-2013 at 03:11 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    The ISU could insist on a published, transparent process by a deadline for selecting the participants in the Olympic qualifier, if the country needs to qualify, and the Olympic and championship teams for the upcoming season. A published, transparent process doesn't stop a federation from saying, for example, that the selections will be made by the Coaches' Committee after European Championships and doing what it wants anyway, but at least the skaters would know ahead of time.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Has this ever worked out long-term for any skater or team anywhere when one attempts to use the courts to get a spot and/or tries to block a competitor from getting one?
    Not skaters .... but I recall the British rhythmic gymnasts took the Swiss rhythmic gymnasts to Court prior to the London Olympics, and won a spot at the team event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Has this ever worked out long-term for any skater or team anywhere when one attempts to use the courts to get a spot and/or tries to block a competitor from getting one?
    Didn't Harding threaten a lawsuit to keep her spot?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The ISU could insist on a published, transparent process by a deadline for selecting the participants in the Olympic qualifier, if the country needs to qualify, and the Olympic and championship teams for the upcoming season. A published, transparent process doesn't stop a federation from ... doing what it wants anyway, but at least the skaters would know ahead of time.
    Sounds good in theory, but having a published, detailed selection process hasn't prevented Australia's current ladies' situation...
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Was the Hershey Open, a club competition in Pennsylvania, the event Han entered without the approval of the national federation? I mentioned Han's participation in the Hershey Open earlier in the Aussie Skating thread where this topic first surfaced as hearsay: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4038500
    I'm curious as to why she'd need permission to skate in this competition. Doesn't USFS have reciprocity agreements with ISA that make permission automatic? They have those kinds of agreements with quite a few ISU NGBs and we see skaters from other countries at local club comps all the time. I didn't realize it could be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    Could it have been handled differently if the Aust skating union would have been more transparent and laid out the choice criteria in a well written from? The issue with some of the skating members is that things are kept somewhat selective.
    The selection criteria is not in dispute as far as I can tell. Kerry's argument seems to be that Han isn't an ISA-eligible skater any more.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvster View Post
    Not skaters .... but I recall the British rhythmic gymnasts took the Swiss rhythmic gymnasts to Court prior to the London Olympics, and won a spot at the team event.
    I don't doubt that people have received spots by going to court, but in the long run, do people really forget Mrs. Mitchell's involvement in trying to convince her US Representative to block Congress from granting citizenship to Tanith Belbin or Punsalan/Swallow's attempt to block Gorsha Sur's? How many people would even thing about David Mitchell if it weren't for the ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Didn't Harding threaten a lawsuit to keep her spot?
    I believe so, since there were no established grounds for taking her spot at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Sounds good in theory, but having a published, detailed selection process hasn't prevented Australia's current ladies' situation...
    Absolutely true: that's not applicable here, nor to the Dambier vs. Contesti issue, which was, IIRC, an attempt to override/change the criteria, which Dambier met and Contesti didn't. The original comment, which I realize now is in the Philippines skating thread, was in praise of the transparency of the Australian process, with the thought that if the Philippines had similar criteria, there wouldn't be the same kind of there.

    The article doesn't say whether Kerry went to CAS to block Han from competing at Nebelhorn for the same reason, or if this is a new tactic by Kerry.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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