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  1. #1
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    Should Tuktamysheva and Gachinski leave Mishin?

    I think that both Tuktamysheva and Gachinski are not progressing in the last two years. Moreover, I think they are regressing, specially Arthur. At this point I think that Gachinski has no chance to go to the Olympics and Tuktamysheva's chances are very, very small. Mishin is known to be a great technical coach, but they are behind the other Russian skaters even in technique. Let's not even talk about the whole packaging-the programs are choreographically weak, the music does not work well for them, the costumes are boring. We are constantly seeing weak performances by them. And Mishin always has some excuses. It is clear that they have issues performing the short programs, but they have these issues for two years. I have a feeling that the Russian Federation will lose any interest in them very, very soon.
    Maybe the should just try working with someone else? Maybe moving to US and working with Rafael Arutunian? It is just sad that such promising skaters are stuck with Mishin and regressing.

  2. #2
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    Yes, and soon. Mishin has given them a good base with jump technique, but everything else is so lacking, and I'm sure his attentions are caught up with Plushenko now. Liza especially, it disheartens me to see her potential wasted when she has so much fire and passion. Artur might be a lost cause, I don't know. He hasn't really skated with joy for the past couple of seasons.

    Mishin needs to at least stop deleting choreography from their programs. And for a master coach, he is really terrible at getting the levels.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by risto1803 View Post
    I think that both Tuktamysheva and Gachinski are not progressing in the last two years. Moreover, I think they are regressing, specially Arthur. At this point I think that Gachinski has no chance to go to the Olympics and Tuktamysheva's chances are very, very small. Mishin is known to be a great technical coach, but they are behind the other Russian skaters even in technique. Let's not even talk about the whole packaging-the programs are choreographically weak, the music does not work well for them, the costumes are boring. We are constantly seeing weak performances by them. And Mishin always has some excuses. It is clear that they have issues performing the short programs, but they have these issues for two years. I have a feeling that the Russian Federation will lose any interest in them very, very soon.
    Maybe the should just try working with someone else? Maybe moving to US and working with Rafael Arutunian? It is just sad that such promising skaters are stuck with Mishin and regressing.
    I think the time has come for both of them to move on to a new coach. They have both been regressing and I think they have gone as far as they can with Mishin.

  4. #4
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    Please YES!!

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    Yes absolutely they should! Liza has done the same sp and lp for her entire senior Career and gachinski Had major regression and maybe wants to move to Canada. They need to keep jump technique though and I think that's why they wont leave.

  6. #6
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    Not following Gachinski but Tuk, absolutely. She needs something fresh to revive her skating.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    I dont get the hype with Tuktamisheva.
    I love saying her name and if i were to move to Russia I would change my name to Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - Tuk for friends.

    Seeing her at post competition party - she has something crazy in her eyes. I wish to see that on the ice as well.
    As of March 2013 - no longer scared of TAHbKA or Andrey aka Pushkin

  8. #8
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    maybe go to Tutberidze ??? but I doubt she will take Tuk she already has Lip
    really sad Tuk probabaly wont be at the Olympics

    enough with the crap tangos and latin medleys for her programs

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    I don't think Tutberidze would be worried about coaching two top girls competing against each other. She didn't mind in the past having Lipnitskaya and Shelepen. In a few years time she will have Lipnitskaya competing against Medvedeva (who still has to stay in juniors the next season). I think there is so many talented young ladies in Russia that sooner or later they will end up sharing a coach.

    In regards to Liza - I don't think it is Mishin's fault that her jumps are not consistent. She is a bit unfortunate with her figure (the puberty was quite unkind to her by giving her very curvy body with hips and boobs) and unfortunately that makes a lot of difference in skating. I am not suggesting that she should loose weight, but her figure is a huge disadvantage. The same way basketball players have advantage when they are tall, figure skaters have advantage when they have womanly curves. No matter who her next coach would be, they can't do anything about this.

    Re: Gachinsky, he had some problems last few years and lost his confidence. That can be very hard to get back and I wouldn't blame Mishin for his problems.

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    Yeah it could be tuktamisheva and gachinski are blaming themselves for all their problems and not mishin for anything. so they would not leave and time for Sochi has nearly run out or is over for both and 2018 is so far away maybe they can fix themselves. Lipinski said skaters can be too quick to blame coaches but i don't believe it would be too quick for gachinski and tuktamisheva.

  11. #11
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    Tuk is injured in the whole season.

  12. #12
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    Both skaters have the Mishin team style imprinted on them, especially Artur, who often looks like a Plushenko-clone without the huge jumps or originality. It is kind of unusual to see the same style imprinted on a young female skater, but Liza is an obvious Mishin team production also.

    They could improve by studying with others, but I do not think Mishin allows that with his pupils, i.e. they stay within the team of coach, dance teacher, costumer, choreographer, etc. under Mishin's leadership.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Both skaters have the Mishin team style imprinted on them, especially Artur, who often looks like a Plushenko-clone without the huge jumps or originality. It is kind of unusual to see the same style imprinted on a young female skater, but Liza is an obvious Mishin team production also.

    They could improve by studying with others, but I do not think Mishin allows that with his pupils, i.e. they stay within the team of coach, dance teacher, costumer, choreographer, etc. under Mishin's leadership.
    He allows outside choreographers to work with skaters but of course all that choreography goes away!

  14. #14

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    No, I don't believe they should. I believe Mishin is handling them both very well - much better than other coaches would. Never has he spoken a harsh word against either of them in public.

    Here are the main issues with both, that are NOT Mishin's fault:

    - Liza grew. She developed from a waify little girl into a mature young lady. That's always a problem no matter how you look at it.

    - Artur grew/got injured/suffered personal issues/and has some psychological issues, clearly, with his skating. That's not something Mishin can click his fingers and fix like magic. Artur's head was clearly messed with at Worlds 2012 and the bollocking he got from all levels of Russian skating - the bollocking that I notice precious little Kovtun was spared - can't have helped his mindset.

    You could argue that the packaging and choreography could be better. I personally love Artur's programs this season - the Buttle SP and the Yuri LP. The problem, of course, is that at present he is not able to skate them well. Liza has gone for a Latin theme again and sure it gets boring after a while but why not pick something she is comfortable with and enjoys for an Olympic season? She certainly sells them with more fire than some of the Russian girls can say.

    Both of them studied with Lambiel and Buttle over the last two off-seasons. To say that Mishin shuts off his skaters from those influences is to disrespect Mishin. He has been a much more supportive and caring coach for both of them over the last two seasons than a lot of other coaches would have been. I have no doubt that, say, Tarasova would have kicked Artur to the curb. Mishin believes in them. Now all he has to do is get Artur to believe in himself. I don't know how Liza's issues can be fixed. Time may be the only remedy.

  15. #15

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    There is no indication that Mishin is the problem with their TES, so adding a choreographer would be better than leaving.

  16. #16

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    I don't see how anyone can blame Mishin for their problems. Liza is still adjusting to her body changes and I heard she had hurt her back and she was considering withdrawing from COR. Gachinski lost confidence, (thanks to his fed for dumping him- sarcasm); his choreography is not the problem. Liza already has another coach that sits next to her, along with Mishin in the K&C. I don't think either should leave Mishin. They are both young and have plenty of time to work through whatever issues they have.

  17. #17
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    Definitely. I hate Mishin's style...
    He is perfect to learn basic technique.

  18. #18

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    Tuk should go to Frank Carroll and skate for Kazakhstan...like Denis Ten did. This should be her goal for 2018-Korea Olympics. She is still very young and can do it. If Frank cannot take her on full-time, there's always Ken Congemi or other fine coaches on Team Carroll.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  19. #19

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    Congemi coaches in Paramount, California now.

    I can't imagine Tuktamysheva or Gachinski ever leaving Russia to train abroad full-time.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #20

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    Liza went from a tiny birdlike girl to a very muscular, compact woman with ample hips, no defined waist and short, sturdy legs. She struggles with adapting her skating technique to her new physical reality, and it can't be easy. It's no wonder she has one injury after another. What I find charming about her is that she keeps smiling even when her skating isn't going well, and she has such a lovely smile.

    I don't know what to make of Gachinski. It's as if he has no confidence at all. He goes out there and you can almost hear him thinking 'well, here goes nothing' and it's a self-defeating prophecy. I cannot remember the last time I have seen this guy smile.

    Her problem is physical and his is mental. I'm not sure a new coach can solve either problem, and leaving Russia would probably be an even worse disaster for both of them.

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