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  1. #601

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    OMG. I posted list of judges, who will be at OG.
    It was rumours in Tech pannel at OG will not be tech specialists from countries, who took top 5 at last season WCh. So at OG in TECH PANNEL couldnt be specialists from USA, Canada, Russia, Itali. Thats all.
    So what question about USA judge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    OMG. I posted list of judges, who will be at OG.
    It was rumours in Tech pannel at OG will not be tech specialists from countries, who took top 5 at last season WCh. So at OG in TECH PANNEL couldnt be specialists from USA, Canada, Russia, Itali. Thats all.
    So what question about USA judge?
    I just think that everytime this judge and Blumberg are on the panel, it just prove D/W cheated to win their gold medals. That is my opinion. THese judges are too biased they should not be on the panel. I think for fair judging they should be No one from USA, CAN, RUSSIA, ITA on both tech and judging panel. I still think Petri Kokko should be on panel for SD. I think ISU should fire Shawn but I hear he has too much political power.
    Last edited by parapluies; 12-08-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  3. #603

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    How i could explane better? Did you see someone from USA in tech. pannel at GPF?

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    How i could explane better? Did you see someone from USA in tech. pannel at GPF?
    I did not look at the judges, I only read. I'm catching up on the thread now. I am just reading about the judge that gave them 5.00 PCS at 4CC SD and It just proves what I have been saying V/M have been underscored throughout their senior career. They are too grate for the ISU. Everytime V/M put out a great performance theres always that one judge that prevents them from getting on the podium.
    Last edited by parapluies; 12-08-2013 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Honestly, a USA judge should not be on the panel especially one who has shown their bias and considering D/W are world champions. It is not fair.
    Is it fair for there to be Canadian, Russian or Italian judges on the panel for this field of 6?

    It has been suggested before that panels at important events should exclude countries with potential medalists, but the idea has never gained any traction. I think one fear is that you would still be left with judges from smaller countries who act as puppets for the larger one. It has often been argued that judges who originally trained in the URS system but now represent Ukraine and other former Soviet countries, Israel, and many old Eastern block countries are really shadow Russian judges. Then there is the problem of how well qualified some of the judges are who come from the countries without strong dance programs. I remember one Olympic gymnastics judge who, when asked why he gave the exact same mark to every athlete, explained that he knew he was unqualified to separate the greatest from the great and wanted to make sure his mark did not cause a bad result. I don't think anyone wants skating to get there.

  6. #606
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    D/W are great technicians, but for me that's where it ends. They should the ones trailing behind V/W ad hoping that V\W make a mistake so they could win. I have no doubt that V/M will come prepared for the Olympics and deliver two great programs. The pressure will be on D/W to build on what they've ready done this season and I think they may have maxed themselves out.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    I just think that everytime this judge and Blumberg are on the panel, it just prove D/W cheated to win their gold medals. That is my opinion. THese judges are too biased they should not be on the panel. I think for fair judging they should be No one from USA, CAN, RUSSIA, ITA on both tech and judging panel. I still think Petri Kokko should be on panel for SD. I think ISU should fire Shawn but I hear he has too much political power.
    You aren't making any sense.

  8. #608
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    Seriously.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    You aren't making any sense.
    Sorry I do not know how judging works and are ignorant of the judging panel at the Olympics. But my questiun is do you think it is fair that this Shawn Rettstatt guy should be on the panel?

  10. #610
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    I think the whole point of the "throw out the high and low" system is to prevent any one judge from having inordinate impact on the totals. In this event, there did seem to be one set of PCS that noticeably below the rest of the panel for most teams. Whoever it is probably thinks s/he is upholding some higher standard, but really, being a consistently low outlier really just renders his/her marks largely irrelevant to the final result.
    Whoever it is likely does it intentionally to be thrown out so the next lowest marks will be counted. Go so much lower than anyone else, so it's you they have to throw out. This has been explained as how you cheat in CoP. If it's the judge people suspect it is, there is no way this judge is so stupid as to be recording the true value of the skate he's scoring. He's scoring to be thrown out, to make sure the real lowest marks (that would normally be thrown out) stay. I believe there's no judge assigned to the GPF so incompetent as to believe those are fair scores. It's a legitimate suspicion that's why whoever it is scored as they did.

    And then obviously, when a skater you want to promote is on the ice, you score outrageously high so the next highest score is retained. The result looks reasonable because there's no eye-catching score differential in the end result that throws up alarms, and of course, the outlier is thrown out. The point of being an outlier is to keep other people's scores in. And so the result looks "fair", but CoP has been manipulated.

    D/W are great technicians, but for me that's where it ends.
    Where is their great technique demonstrated in their programs? No sarcasm - I would like to see where they're exhibiting their great technique. Virtue and Moir are defeating Davis White in TES. It's pcs where Davis White are prevailing.
    Last edited by Subway; 12-08-2013 at 11:32 PM.

  11. #611
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    Conspiracy theories aside (because I hate them), it is not crazy to ask why they got 8.75 on Skating Skills. I mean, had it been a bad skate, of course I'd get it, it would be a logical mark. But everything clicked, they did not put a foot wrong, so why 8.75? It was not just on SS, it was also on Linking. Same mark: 8.75. After a high-quality skate, error-free. That's the thing, why? This is where a non-biased coach would be handy, but Marina isn't going to ask the judges about those 8.75.

    This is an honest question, please answer without sarcasm. What would warrant an 8.75 on SS and Linking? What would you have to miss to get an 8.75?

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Do you have a link?
    Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T9dU-VoNhw

  13. #613
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    Thank you, Sonata! Loved how the Spanish commentator was speechless. Just towards the end of the diagonal step sequence, she whispers: "Oh, so beautiful".

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    How i could explane better? Did you see someone from USA in tech. pannel at GPF?

    CoR 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/
    V/M judge #5 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SD_Scores.pdf
    V/M judge #2 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf

    GPF 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/
    V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SD_Scores.pdf
    V/M judge # 5 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf

    GPF 2013: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/
    V/M judge #7 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SD_Scores.pdf
    V/M judge #1 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf

    Worlds 2013, SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013
    V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SD_Scores.pdf

    All of these panels had Shawn Rettstatt on the panels and they all have one set of marks that is much lower than the rest.

  15. #615
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    You can't be sure it's him. You can't go around singling out judges with no proof, it's pointless.

    I disagree with many of you about certain behind-the-scene assumptions, but I do believe the judges have their favorites and that they are simply favoring them. That's what the PCS tell me, it doesn't tell me that judge number X is out to get team X or that federation X is meeting with judge X, I cannot say that because I don't know.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Where is their great technique demonstrated in their programs? No sarcasm - I would like to see where they're exhibiting their great technique. Virtue and Moir are defeating Davis White in TES. It's pcs where Davis White are prevailing.
    Those who said that Virtue and Moir have regressed technically must have been in shock at the Grand Prix Final.

    Tessa and Scott skated their free dance magnificently in Japan. So happy for them.

  17. #617
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    grand prix final videos and articles here
    teb videos, articles and photos here

    please let me know if you have any issues reading the gold text that i use for quotes.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Labored in ice dance is good. People need to look busy and super tired and like they're struggling. It needs to look very difficult.
    even the eurosport commentators commented on how "difficult" the dance was while showing the post-dance slump

  19. #619
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    Golightly, we'll (respectfully) agree to disagree. People single out referees, they single out umpires, they single out other judges in other sports. There is a pattern with this judge. Is that proof, no, but there's no need to shut up. If those who question him have it wrong, it can be clarified, just as with anything else in any other sport called into question. I'm speaking up for speaking out. I differ in that I don't believe everything in this sport comes from a place of well meaning, if misplaced, intentions. I'm not going to belabor it, but I do think questions should be encouraged, and scoring such as we saw in Rostelcom and in the GPF dance event should also be questioned - not just questioned, scrutinized. There are people behind the scores, and they should be scrutinized too. Unfortunately, figure skating goes out of its way to make sure it's not accountable, unlike other sports.

    Now this:

    This is where a non-biased coach would be handy, but Marina isn't going to ask the judges about those 8.75.
    Or she won't ask them about it in the media. Maybe she'll ask them, not ask them through the press. Just as some people dislike conspiracy theories when it comes to how figure skating is judged , I dislike this concept that somehow Scott and Tessa are ill-served by their biased coach and only fans can perceive it, or somehow Scott and Tessa are willing to tolerate this, when there's no proof other than the fact that she also coaches Davis White. If Scott and Tessa don't understand something about the scores, she will ask the judges. She doesn't come running to us every time she does something.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Whoever it is likely does it intentionally to be thrown out so the next lowest marks will be counted. Go so much lower than anyone else, so it's you they have to throw out. This has been explained as how you cheat in CoP. If it's the judge people suspect it is, there is no way this judge is so stupid as to be recording the true value of the skate he's scoring. He's scoring to be thrown out, to make sure the real lowest marks (that would normally be thrown out) stay. I believe there's no judge assigned to the GPF so incompetent as to believe those are fair scores. It's a legitimate suspicion that's why whoever it is scored as they did.

    And then obviously, when a skater you want to promote is on the ice, you score outrageously high so the next highest score is retained. The result looks reasonable because there's no eye-catching score differential in the end result that throws up alarms, and of course, the outlier is thrown out. The point of being an outlier is to keep other people's scores in. And so the result looks "fair", but CoP has been manipulated.
    I'm glad I'm not alone in believing this is what's being done ... you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

    VM took their programs, particularly the SD to a whole other level this competition and for me that ability showcased the difference between them and everyone else. The record breaking scores may belong to DW, but they still haven't reached the same level as VM have in either of their programs - same amount of time, supposedly hard workers, outside star professionals and yet they're not there.

    I thought Zueva had a slightly 'resigned' look on her face after the FD scores.

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