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  1. #21
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    Pechalat/Bourzat are driftwood. I think that nothing is really working for them at the moment.

    Compared to other top teams, they seem quite slow and technically they haven't been very sharp at their two GP events.

    Both of their programs miss the mark.

    SD is fun and they sell it well but it's a program that could have been skated by any other team. It's not creative or original, it doesn't stand out and it doesn't make a strong statement.

    FD looks like an early draft. I appreciate the thought process behind it but the movements seem unfinished and the program lacks highlights. It falls flat.

    I really wanted them to show something truly epic in their last competitive season but they just seem out of shape and the programs aren't anything special either.

    Maybe it wasn't the best idea to experiment with the coaching change before the Olympic season?

  2. #22
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    Maybe it wasn't the best idea to experiment with the coaching change before the Olympic season?
    I think the coaching change was thanks to Dear Didier, not an experiment P/B initiated themselves.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I think the coaching change was thanks to Dear Didier, not an experiment P/B initiated themselves.
    Yes, reportedly he forced them to move to Shpilband.

    I'm not saying that he is a bad coach or even that he's bad for them. But you need time to gel, to connect, if you're changing your technique that takes time as well. I just don't think it's all working out particularly well for them at the moment.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Pechalat/Bourzat are driftwood. I think that nothing is really working for them at the moment.

    Compared to other top teams, they seem quite slow and technically they haven't been very sharp at their two GP events.

    Both of their programs miss the mark.

    SD is fun and they sell it well but it's a program that could have been skated by any other team. It's not creative or original, it doesn't stand out and it doesn't make a strong statement.

    FD looks like an early draft. I appreciate the thought process behind it but the movements seem unfinished and the program lacks highlights. It falls flat.

    I really wanted them to show something truly epic in their last competitive season but they just seem out of shape and the programs aren't anything special either.

    Maybe it wasn't the best idea to experiment with the coaching change before the Olympic season?
    I must really be missing something when watching them. While it's not their most original work, it's a much stronger FD than what they have been doing over the past 2 seasons. I find them to be looking sharper and more polished this season. I actually think it's one of the stronger FDs this season. I see much more content and detail than what I have seen from a vast number of programs this year. If not for the extended lift, they would have gotten silver at TEB. They're hardly driftwood . I admit, I do feel like they are revisiting earlier ideas with this program.

    But to be fair, this isn't the strongest year for dance all around as far as FD choreography goes .

    I&K- I am not getting the love of I&K and their Black Swan. It's genuinely puzzling to me how a program filled with so many open moments, no real use of hold or close skating, and a lack of details /overall sloppiness is being touted as balletic, or an example of good posture in any way. It's generic Morosov junk

    B&S -everyone can agree are just embarrassing to look at this season.

    D&W- Generic , frantic, nothing of Scheherazade in anything they do. It's Samson and Delilah revisited, but Samson and Delilah had nicer music.

    V&M- Beautiful, but bland, it's basically Mahler revisited...I think Mahler had nicer music.

    C&L- Not a bad program. They've improved, but nothing remarkable .

    W&P- I like the program. They have improved, but they're honestly too vanilla to really do the program any justice. I don't see Tango or Latin when I watch them.
    IMHO P&B are in good company.
    Last edited by escaflowne9282; 11-19-2013 at 06:02 AM.

  5. #25

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    Their material was awful with Krylova and Rico Suave. I don't know how much the coaches were responsible for that, but I really wish they'd gone straight from Zhulin to Igor.

    I love this year's FD, everything about it. They are a bit snakebit, though, since losing the bronze in 2011 to the Shibs.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Their material was awful with Krylova and Rico Suave. I don't know how much the coaches were responsible for that, but I really wish they'd gone straight from Zhulin to Igor.

    I love this year's FD, everything about it. They are a bit snakebit, though, since losing the bronze in 2011 to the Shibs.
    I like it too, quite a bit.
    They seemed slow at TEB, but I much prefer this sophisticated program to I/K's fast but udefined (IMO) Swan Lake. But I think unless Pechalat/ Bourzat increase the speed and flow, they will be buried in the stands, with Russia hosting and other teams ( markedly W/P and C/L) quite strong this year.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Their material was awful with Krylova and Rico Suave. I don't know how much the coaches were responsible for that, but I really wish they'd gone straight from Zhulin to Igor.
    When they left Zhulin Shpilband was still at Canton with Zoueva and all the world medalists, so that was a non-starter.

    I believe P/B have mostly been working with external choreographers rather than their coaches for the past few years.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post

    I believe P/B have mostly been working with external choreographers rather than their coaches for the past few years.
    It's very funny to me that in pretty much every interview this year Nathalie and Fabian have fallen over themselves to point out that Igor was ONLY involved in the design of their technical elements and had nothing to do with the choreography or the concept.

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    I've always thought their strength was their originality and their willingness to take risks with choreography and costumes. I think they lack the physicality of Davis/White and the grace of Virtue/Moir. Their moves are not as clean and their lines are not as good. Maybe being shuffled around so much has hindered their progress.

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    Really, judges don't really care about clean moves or good lines, this is very obvious (see numerous explanations above). The problem for P-B is that they aren't consistent. They were very bad at CoC and improved here, but it was not enough. I also think I-K PCS marks were too much. They cleaned up the program, but already in the nines? With all those partnering issues in that program? Guess the judges don't care about that either.

    I do not think all is lost for P-B, but if I'm W-P and see what's going on, I'd feel pretty good about my chances. It is sad because they, P-B, are better ice dancers than W-P, but their lack of consistency might cost them a medal.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post

    Maybe you [or some other kind poster] could take me through this program and show me the connotations of the rose and how he expresses himself as the prince - something like you did for the opening? I might be able to understand it then. I dont see the arrogance either from Natalie - playfulness, but not arrogance.
    I'll try! Each "part" represents a change in the music.

    Part 1: The rose grows/ blooms and the Little Prince discovers it. This is kind of like a courting section - getting to know one another, a general fascination. Not a lot of story particulars to go through yet. (through about 1:19, this is the first section of music, which has a waltzy/ romantic feel to it.)

    Part 2: In the story, the rose asks the prince to do things for her/ take care of her. The more he does, the more demanding she becomes. Notice Nathalie's arm movements throughout the step sequence - like she's telling him to do this and do that. Notice how when they're not in hold, he's behind her, and she's "leading." The more upbeat music in this section expresses the back and forth and push and pull of the relationship. (through about 2:06)

    Part 3: Begins with him placing her down from the lift. In this section of the story the prince becomes tired of the rose's demands and becomes upset with her after she lies to him. Eventually they reconcile, but he leaves her to explore other planets. The sadder tone of this music represents the decline in the relationship. As far as movements, notice how Fabian turns away from her around 3:02 and looks toward other things. Then Nathalie (the rose) grabs him and pulls him back to her, he reaches away again, but stays with her. During the lift at 3:20, he's supporting her, but by the end of the section at 3:30, he's left her again to go explore.

    Part 4: In this section the prince returns to his planet and his rose. During his travels he realized how much she means to him and that she truly is special, so he returns to take care of her. This is the most upbeat music, and the "happiest" section because both the prince and the rose have what they desire. Think of it as kind of frolicking about! (Although in the actual story, we don't know if the prince made it back to his planet.)

    Disclaimer: This is my best effort to explain how I see it. I have no clue if this is how they see it, and I'm not offended if others have different opinions! But maybe this will help you?

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    Yes - it does help - quite a lot! Now I will go watch it again with all this in mind.

    Thanks for that explanation - it was clear, specific and REALLY helpful - and I bet not just to me.

    You are X 2

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I'll try! Each "part" represents a change in the music.

    Part 1: The rose grows/ blooms and the Little Prince discovers it. This is kind of like a courting section - getting to know one another, a general fascination. Not a lot of story particulars to go through yet. (through about 1:19, this is the first section of music, which has a waltzy/ romantic feel to it.)

    Part 2: In the story, the rose asks the prince to do things for her/ take care of her. The more he does, the more demanding she becomes. Notice Nathalie's arm movements throughout the step sequence - like she's telling him to do this and do that. Notice how when they're not in hold, he's behind her, and she's "leading." The more upbeat music in this section expresses the back and forth and push and pull of the relationship. (through about 2:06)

    Part 3: Begins with him placing her down from the lift. In this section of the story the prince becomes tired of the rose's demands and becomes upset with her after she lies to him. Eventually they reconcile, but he leaves her to explore other planets. The sadder tone of this music represents the decline in the relationship. As far as movements, notice how Fabian turns away from her around 3:02 and looks toward other things. Then Nathalie (the rose) grabs him and pulls him back to her, he reaches away again, but stays with her. During the lift at 3:20, he's supporting her, but by the end of the section at 3:30, he's left her again to go explore.

    Part 4: In this section the prince returns to his planet and his rose. During his travels he realized how much she means to him and that she truly is special, so he returns to take care of her. This is the most upbeat music, and the "happiest" section because both the prince and the rose have what they desire. Think of it as kind of frolicking about! (Although in the actual story, we don't know if the prince made it back to his planet.)

    Disclaimer: This is my best effort to explain how I see it. I have no clue if this is how they see it, and I'm not offended if others have different opinions! But maybe this will help you?
    Thank you . That's a great explanation - helpful for me too, as I read 'Little Prince' so many years ago that I don't really remember much of it.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I'll try! Each "part" represents a change in the music.

    Part 1: The rose grows/ blooms and the Little Prince discovers it. This is kind of like a courting section - getting to know one another, a general fascination. Not a lot of story particulars to go through yet. (through about 1:19, this is the first section of music, which has a waltzy/ romantic feel to it.)

    Part 2: In the story, the rose asks the prince to do things for her/ take care of her. The more he does, the more demanding she becomes. Notice Nathalie's arm movements throughout the step sequence - like she's telling him to do this and do that. Notice how when they're not in hold, he's behind her, and she's "leading." The more upbeat music in this section expresses the back and forth and push and pull of the relationship. (through about 2:06)

    Part 3: Begins with him placing her down from the lift. In this section of the story the prince becomes tired of the rose's demands and becomes upset with her after she lies to him. Eventually they reconcile, but he leaves her to explore other planets. The sadder tone of this music represents the decline in the relationship. As far as movements, notice how Fabian turns away from her around 3:02 and looks toward other things. Then Nathalie (the rose) grabs him and pulls him back to her, he reaches away again, but stays with her. During the lift at 3:20, he's supporting her, but by the end of the section at 3:30, he's left her again to go explore.

    Part 4: In this section the prince returns to his planet and his rose. During his travels he realized how much she means to him and that she truly is special, so he returns to take care of her. This is the most upbeat music, and the "happiest" section because both the prince and the rose have what they desire. Think of it as kind of frolicking about! (Although in the actual story, we don't know if the prince made it back to his planet.)

    Disclaimer: This is my best effort to explain how I see it. I have no clue if this is how they see it, and I'm not offended if others have different opinions! But maybe this will help you?
    Awesome explanation - I've always loved this story (also the part with the Little prince's encounter with the fox). May Nathalie & Fabian have great success with this (and their sp) @ the Olympics/Worlds.

  15. #35
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    The encounter with the fox is up there as one of my favorite moments in literature. So human.

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    You're all very welcome. Glad it was helpful!

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    I am watching Universal Sports and Tanith has made specific references to Bobrova' s poor posture and sloppiness and the fact that it takes away from what they can do. She also says that B & S are not so much stronger than W& P that they should be so much farther ahead after the FD. She attributes their success to the traditional approach to the dance.

    Thank you for the explanation if B & P's FD.

    I think part of the problem with B & P is that the performance is not matching up to the creativity. Sometimes people try so hard to be unique that the audience gets lost. When a team attempts to do something different they have to be better than great for people to accept that new standard. We shouldn't need an explanation. It should stand on it's on. I would also say on the flip side that if a team is going to perform to a piece that we've seen a gazillion times it needs to be better than anything ever seen just to keep us from getting bored.

    I respect B & P for making the attempt. What they are attempting to do is hard as hell. Very few teams are able to do both. Torvill and Dean come to mind. I wish them much success this season.
    The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are--Joseph Campbell

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post

    I think part of the problem with B & P is that the performance is not matching up to the creativity. Sometimes people try so hard to be unique that the audience gets lost. When a team attempts to do something different they have to be better than great for people to accept that new standard. We shouldn't need an explanation. It should stand on it's on. I would also say on the flip side that if a team is going to perform to a piece that we've seen a gazillion times it needs to be better than anything ever seen just to keep us from getting bored.

    I respect B & P for making the attempt. What they are attempting to do is hard as hell. Very few teams are able to do both. Torvill and Dean come to mind. I wish them much success this season.
    Why anyone attempts to be creative under IJS, I don't even know. The backlash is basically always "I don't get it" (I'm not calling out you for this-- I know you are saying something more nuanced; it's what I've been generally picking up) and that's from the same people who turn around and decry that skaters use the same 10-20 pieces of music year in and year out. There is also zero reward for trying something new/something this difficult. When P/B are gone next year, there will just be one less team putting out original work. No one is going to replace them. The young junior teams coming up have no concept of dance pre-IJS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Why anyone attempts to be creative under IJS, I don't even know. The backlash is basically always "I don't get it" (I'm not calling out you for this-- I know you are saying something more nuanced; it's what I've been generally picking up) and that's from the same people who turn around and decry that skaters use the same 10-20 pieces of music year in and year out. There is also zero reward for trying something new/something this difficult. When P/B are gone next year, there will just be one less team putting out original work. No one is going to replace them. The young junior teams coming up have no concept of dance pre-IJS.
    There are some lower ranked teams that are at least trying to do concept-driven stuff - Zhiganshina/Gazsi obviously, and this season I'd also add Gilles/Poirier and Hurtado/Diaz. I agree that it's up to the individual teams to emphasize this if they find it important, though, since the IJS obviously doesn't. It's much more effective to channel your creativity into coming up with new lifts.

  20. #40
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    I think if they skate the SD well in Sochi they'll be in 3rd, IMO it's one of the best, if not the best at capturing the character while also showing off their personalities. It's the FD that will be harder to pull off, but once they get the technique up and increase their speed I think this program will come alive. These two programs are so much better than the two they've had the past couple seasons IMO. I think Bobrova would be amazing at shotput or javelin throwing.. I think they look really rough. Overall I think they are most def still in it and I think the judges really like them, but I would put money on I/K because their SL FD just screams medal on home ice to me.

    I am so incredibly bored watching both V/M and D/W this year, V/M's FD in particular makes me feel like I'm trapped in a room in Lucille Ball's house being forced to watch 50's romance movies all day long in black and white with no popcorn or candy available and the faint smell of mothballs in the distance.

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