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  1. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I don't recall either. I was not a fan of either Hughes skater but I don't remember them making any fuss. I'd ask the poster to provide a link validating they made an uproar but I suspect such a request would be ignored anyway.
    Yes, it will be ignored because I don't have a link. I do recall a lot of discussion, not just on fsu, but I recall it being mentioned on TV as well.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Yes, it will be ignored because I don't have a link. I do recall a lot of discussion, not just on fsu, but I recall it being mentioned on TV as well.
    You're saying that someone on TV said the Hughes were causing a big uproar over Kwan's naming to the team? I don't remember that ever happening or talked about.

  3. #423

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    I remember there being a little bit of discussion about what a rough break it is when an injured person gets a bye, some discussion of the fact that Todd E. made the Olympic team in 1992 the same way and then blew the short with a loss of concentration on the 2A, and so forth. But I think the focus of the discussion was more along the lines of 'is it realistic for Michelle to think she will be healthy enough?' I think in her case, even people who were not huge fans of hers (like myself), felt that she had certainly earned enough spots for the US over the years to be given the benefit of the doubt.
    ~ Alison

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    You're saying that someone on TV said the Hughes were causing a big uproar over Kwan's naming to the team? I don't remember that ever happening or talked about.
    I do remember an interview with Cohen where she said she thought everyone should have to "earn their spot."

  5. #425
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    ^^Well I'd say standing on every world podium for nearly a decade was more than enough earning.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The third spot is available for anyone that skates well enough to place that high. However, dropping Ashley and Gracie (both) from the team would be disastrous, if they place 4th & 5th. Those are the ones with podium potential in Sochi. The fed is going to first think of what's best for the USA, whether it's fair or not. Of course if one of the other skaters actually wins the US title, the fed is bound by the rules to select that skater. It's a tall order for the three skaters you mentioned, but if that happens, it will still leave the USFSA the option to select two skaters for the other two spots, and I believe they will pick Ashley and Gracie, regardless of how anyone skates.
    If Ashley and Gracie place 4th and 5th, Ashley will still be named to the team because such a skate would be a fluke for her. She has proven herself enough in the GP series to be given the benefit of the doubt for at least one of the three spots. Gracie, not so much. I don't think she's a lock by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I do remember an interview with Cohen where she said she thought everyone should have to "earn their spot."
    I hate comments like these from athletes, usually made when the athlete is young and healthy. If said athlete was injured, I'm sure they would want the option to petition as well, and these comments would come back to bite them in the butt later.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    and is that fair?, is that ethical?

    that's why I said it would be a boring and disappointing Nationals if Wagner and/or Gold have mediocre skates compared to more deserving skaters, but are still sent to Sochi by USFS.
    Actually it is fair, and ethical. The USFS selection rules are not solely dependent on nationals for 2nd and 3rd spots.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Actually it is fair, and ethical. The USFS selection rules are not solely dependent on nationals for 2nd and 3rd spots.
    They aren't for the 1st spot either. Nationals is NOT an Olympic trial. I believe 1st place is only -guaranteed- Worlds. Of course, they will get the Olympics too.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    and is that fair?, is that ethical?

    that's why I said it would be a boring and disappointing Nationals if Wagner and/or Gold have mediocre skates compared to more deserving skaters, but are still sent to Sochi by USFS.
    You're saying that if the best US ladies skater, 3 seasons running, who has proved herself again and again, and is a legitimate Olympic podium threat, has a bad day and places 4th that it would be smart to leave her off the olympic/world team for the USFSA?

    How about we theoretically send Gao, Cesario, and Hicks.

    The lovely US ladies have no star in Sochi, no one they can hype, no one who has a realistic chance of even coming close to cracking top 6. There is no media darling, there is no buzz.

    The US goes from team event gold medal contender to grabbing only a bronze. In the ladies event they place 8th, 10th, and 14th. Worst showing in history, it's too bad because it could have been very different..

    At worlds after, the US ladies have another respectable showing but the 3rd spot is invariably lost.

    Finally, everyone knows the ladies rule figure skating at the Olympics, but the lack of ladies buzz causes the post Olympic 30 city tour to flop. Figure skating comes out of 2013-2014 much worse than it started it.

    .......all this to say, your lack of foresight is appalling. Happy you're not the one picking the team.

    Disclaimer: The skaters were arbitrarily chosen, not a criticism of those skaters! I tried to be realistic as possible.
    Last edited by cbd1235; 01-03-2014 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    there is virtually no chance that a skater who wins Nationals would not be chosen for the Olympic team. Unless they're not eligible because of citizenship or because of age (in which case they also can't go to Worlds).
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    They aren't for the 1st spot either. Nationals is NOT an Olympic trial. I believe 1st place is only -guaranteed- Worlds. Of course, they will get the Olympics too.
    Oh, I thought of one more reason why a national champion might not be named to the Olympic team these days -- if they don't have the minimum technical scores from an appropriate international event.

    There probably isn't time to get them between Nationals and Olympics. If someone who hasn't already earned the scores ended up winning Nationals, I'm sure there would be every effort to get them to some international before Worlds. But the Worlds minimums are higher, so the skater in question would less be able to afford a bad day that would waste the opportunity.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I hate comments like these from athletes, usually made when the athlete is young and healthy. If said athlete was injured, I'm sure they would want the option to petition as well, and these comments would come back to bite them in the butt later.
    As it did with Kwan who made the same comment about wanting to "earn" the spot in 1998 rather than be "given" the spot.

    Still waiting for a link confirming the Hughes made a big to-do over Kwan being named to the team. It'll never happen though because it never happened.

    I can't believe I am defending the Hughes. Sarah got under my skin as far back as 1999 when it wasn't yet cool to dislike her.

  12. #432
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    And before anyone asks me for a link confirming that Kwan made those statements, here it is.

    With her winning history and a nagging foot injury, Michelle Kwan could easily skip next month's U.S. Figure Skating championships and receive a free pass to the 1998 Winter Olympics.

    But that's not her style.

    Kwan announced yesterday that she plans to compete at the nationals in Philadelphia, despite a stress fracture of her left foot.


    "This is the Olympic year, and I want to get the full taste of it," Kwan said. "I don't want to go straight to the Olympics. I want to earn it."


    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...g-skate-canada

    Now I will wait for a URL showing the Hughes made a huge uproar.

  13. #433

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    Yeah, Fenway, but Kwan was commenting on herself NOT another competitor. I am very sure Kwan wanted to compete at 2006 U.S. Nationals as well, but she was not healed enough to do so. Kwan has always been a competitor and has relished the opportunity to defend her Nationals title 9 times.

    Kwan was not commenting on another skater who was given a bye in the way Sasha Cohen was. And if you want to look at a more analogous situation, look at Kwan's comments when she was named alternate (not given a place) at the 1994 Olympics. She specifically stated that Tonya Harding had earned the right to compete.


    The situations you point out are not analogous.

    O-

  14. #434
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    Nonsense. The quote I highlighted was a young athlete making a comment about earning a spot rather than being handed one and having the comment come back to bite them, so yes, it does apply.

    Bring on the Kwan brigade.

  15. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Nonsense. The quote I highlighted was a young athlete making a comment about earning a spot rather than being handed one and having the comment come back to bite them, so yes, it does apply.

    Bring on the Kwan brigade.
    Kwan was commenting about herself. She had the ability to skate, so obviously she wanted to skate and earn her spot by competing. Kwan said NOTHING in 1998 about whether or not an athlete should be given a bye when they do not compete and "earn" their spot by competing. Hence, she was not commenting at all on injury byes. Period.

    Kwan DID, however, comment about an athlete being given an injury bye in 1994 when she herself lost out on an opportunity to compete at the Olympics as a result and Nancy Kerrigan received an injury bye to compete at the Olympics.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ime_010994.htm

    Maybe you should think about this a little more before making such ridiculous snarky comments. Your situation is not analogous. My example is. Not rocket science.

    O-

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Nonsense. The quote I highlighted was a young athlete making a comment about earning a spot rather than being handed one and having the comment come back to bite them, so yes, it does apply.

    Bring on the Kwan brigade.
    I don't have much to say other than I doubt Michelle took the decision very lightly in 2006. She was trying her best to be at Nationals. I don't think she would have skated at Marshall's if she wasn't excepting to be ready by Nationals. I don't have any problem with a skater petitioning to be on the team. If the committee grants them it is not the fault of the skater. I do have a problem if the judges give unwarrented marks in any competition though. Again it is no fault of the skater but is the fault of the judges.

  17. #437
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    You cannot compare losing a spot on the team to someone who was viciously attacked at a USFSA event to someone losing a spot to an injured athlete who applied for a bye before nationals began. What a huge jump to make. You're throwing up your hands and throwing irrelevant, er, stuff, into the conversation in an obvious attempt to take focus off the original debate.

    Jarrett, I agree that Kwan took her bye seriously. I think she deserved the right to compete.

    I do think her words came back to haunt her though.
    Last edited by fenway2; 01-03-2014 at 09:23 PM.

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    "This is the Olympic year, and I want to get the full taste of it," Kwan said. "I don't want to go straight to the Olympics. I want to earn it."
    I think what Kwan meant by this is that she wanted to earn her spot by winning nationals, since the 2nd and 3rd place finishers do not earn their spots that way. Only the winner is guaranteed a spot.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I think what Kwan meant by this is that she wanted to earn her spot by winning nationals, since the 2nd and 3rd place finishers do not earn their spots that way. Only the winner is guaranteed a spot.
    Yes, she did win nationals in 1998 and come on, you have no idea if she meant winning nationals or placing top 3. That's conjecture. Bobek looked thrilled at the end of the ladies free skate at 98 nationals because she knew what everyone else knew, the top 3 were virtually assured of going to the Olympics.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Yes, she did win nationals in 1998 and come on, you have no idea if she meant winning nationals or placing top 3. That's conjecture. Bobek looked thrilled at the end of the ladies free skate at 98 nationals because she knew what everyone else knew, the top 3 were virtually assured of going to the Olympics.
    You're also doing quite a bit of conjecturing. It doesn't matter what the athletes thought, felt or assumed about their chances of making the team. Only the winner makes the team at nationals. For everyone else, nationals is part of the equation, and there are no guarantees.

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