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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Samantha wasn't out on the Senior Circuit earlier because the USFSA really only controls one GP spot (Skate America host pick) per season. She didn't place well enough at Nationals to go to Worlds or 4CC's so she had no chance to get on the SB list so therefore no SGP assignment. The best place to get ranking points and the possibility of a SGP is on the JGP and Jr. Worlds. Who should Samantha have bumped for a spot at Worlds or 4CC's?
    In various years, Mirai, Agnes or Christina also did not go to worlds at all and not always 4CC yet they got Grand Prix assignments, as did Caroline and Flatt. I think it is more bc Sam was injured at nationals and did not medal on JGP until last year I think. She is the same age as Mirai yet has significantly less senior experience. By not having last season on the senior Grand Prix, I think that probably hurt her. She might be doing better now if she had another year on the Grand Prix instead of being in juniors last year. She is skating well despite that, but she might be skating better if she had that experience.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Is that an appropriate comparison? Edmunds competed as a Junior at Nationals; Chiera will be competing as a Senior. In 2011, the USFSA sent Leah Keiser, who had finished tenth in Seniors at Nationals, to the International Challenge Cup for her first international assignment. Perhaps they will do the same for Chiera if she does well enough at Nationals.
    yes, and Alex Johnson got the same when he was 7th at nationals? But that would not be a way to get her a qualifying score for jr worlds. Not that I say she should go no question, but girls with less impressive scores have been sent to get a q score. For me, it is not so much one case or two, but the hope that US will learn to be more flexible about assignments in the future

  3. #323
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    I wish the US would use even more Senior B's in general; Golden Spin, NRW Trophy, etc. Perhaps using these competitions when they see a young lady doing really well on the Regionals / Sectionals circuit (Francesca Chiera) would go far. They might use Challenge Cup in February. I realize money issues creep in, but that's just my wish.

  4. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    I don't know why so many people seem so behind Polina for Sochi. USFS would be doing something it has never done before for the Olympics. I don't think they would be so irresponsible so as to have a junior make their intl debut on the senior level at the Olympics. We cannot compare her junior scores- made in shorter times under different pressure situations and different competitions- with the ladies now on the Senior Circuit. Many times - sadly maybe even most times - ladies who do well on the Junior Circuit often do not do well on the Senior Circuit.
    If Edmunds finishes in the top three at nationals, she should get to go to the Olympics. The third U.S. girl is not going to medal at the Olympics, barring a major Wylie moment, so let the best from nationals go. It's not like Zawadzki, Gao, Nagasu, Hicks, and Cesario are so much better skaters. They're all hovering in the 171-175 point bracket on the SB list (minus Hicks since her Skate Canada score was poor). They've all done decently in their international assignments. If Edmunds defeats them all at nationals, she should get to go. What would be irresponsible would be sending a skater who couldn't even defeat the junior-circuit skater at the pressure-filled national championships!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    No one is happy with how JGP selection works, or so it would seem.
    This year's selections were the best in recent memory. There is still room for improvement, and worse, poor selection in the past continues to have ripple effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    I think the US likes to pick skaters who have been building over a couple years as opposed to flash in the pan talents. When Gracie Gold went on the JGP she only got one assignment (unfortunately the last calendar assignment). She was a force around that time, but if you flash back by one year she wasn't nearly so established as a top Junior. One could criticize the federation for not giving GG two spots, but how would they know she would bring it. It's so easy to look at assignments with retrospective clarity and point fingers where assignments could have been better chosen, but no one has a crystal ball.
    Many of us criticized the federation in real time about the Gracie Gold situation. It was clear as day that she was dominating the junior fields at the summer monitoring competitions. Her selection was a complete no-brainer, and yet USFS could only manage one spot for her. Heck, I even said that Edmunds should have been selected for a JGP back when she was 13. You better believe she deserved it more than some of the other selections, e.g., Daniels, and I said that in real time, too. Sure, there will be skaters who look promising and everything doesn't come together for them. It's equally true that there are skaters who look like they are struggling mightily, and yet they still get assigned. Keiser's withdrawal from the JGP this year is the first time in a long, long time that someone who wasn't ready stepped back. And wasn't that the case? I think I recall reading that it was her and her coach who decided to give the assignment back, not that USFS took it back from her. USFS needs to either wait to pick their athletes until closer to the event and with good monitoring or they need to be willing to take back prematurely-assigned spots.

  5. #325

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    Quote Originally Posted by her grace View Post
    If Edmunds finishes in the top three at nationals, she should get to go to the Olympics. The third U.S. girl is not going to medal at the Olympics, barring a major Wylie moment, so let the best from nationals go. It's not like Zawadzki, Gao, Nagasu, Hicks, and Cesario are so much better skaters. They're all hovering in the 171-175 point bracket on the SB list (minus Hicks since her Skate Canada score was poor). They've all done decently in their international assignments. If Edmunds defeats them all at nationals, she should get to go. What would be irresponsible would be sending a skater who couldn't even defeat the junior-circuit skater at the pressure-filled national championships!
    I agree, and I say this as a fan of a few of the skaters you mentioned. This notion of "she can't possibly be ready because she never competed as a senior before" is hogwash. There's been plenty of juniors to light up the scene their first time out, and there's plenty of veterans who completely bomb at big competitions with no warning. The point of sports and the Olympics is for people to compete for the spots, not have them awarded from experience. Otherwise what is the point of these competitions? Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson weren't handed spots in the most recent Olympics gymnastics teams even though they were the biggest names still in the game-they had to prove their worth by competing, and as it turned out, they weren't good enough and/or too injured the second time around to make the team. And that led to the right people being named.

    As for JGP, I think there is always going to be a struggle when the most recent Nationals from January is the only major comp you have to go by- summer comps will never be taken as seriously, unless there is one major designated summer comp. This year was a bit lucky because all the major players had competed and done well at Nationals last year, whereas usually you have a few skaters who are on fire during the summer comps but missed or did poorly at Nationals and its not possible to resolve that fairly to all parties involved. I would advocate for a system that required all the players to show up at a competition mid-summer, and then have a definitive points system that takes into account score & placement from Nationals and also score and placement from the mid-summer comp, so there is a clear order of which skaters to assign. I doubt it would happen but it sure would be nice.

  6. #326

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    I also believe that third Olympic spot should go to the skater who earns the spot at U.S. Nationals. Period. I don't see any compelling reason to give the spot to anyone else -- unless, of course, Wagner finishes 3rd. Unless injured, Wagner should go no matter what, IMHO.

    O-

  7. #327

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    ^^ and adding I think the second and third spots should go to the people who earn them.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  8. #328

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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I also believe that third Olympic spot should go to the skater who earns the spot at U.S. Nationals. Period. I don't see any compelling reason to give the spot to anyone else -- unless, of course, Wagner finishes 3rd. Unless injured, Wagner should go no matter what, IMHO.

    O-
    Agree, especially that Wagner should be named to the Olympic Team if healthy. She has proven herself over 3 seasons, especially the current season, that she is the best US competitor, and that should override a single Nationals placement. There is precedence in such an action , one year they sent Kimmie to Worlds even though she placed lower than Katrina Hacker, the 3rd highest qualifying , age-eligible skater. I think Ashley's case this year is stronger than Kimmie's was.

  9. #329
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    Ashley has really earned her trip the past 3 seasons, I totally agree. I think she is more worthy than the combined efforts of the next 3 US ladies. Can we send Ashley Wagner x3 to the games? If one of them goes clean then that Ashley will likely end up on the podium, the other two will obviously be top 6 as they will have solid skates. The girl is a fighter.

    ETA: I'm alright with Ashley x2 and Gracie Gold x1

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I also believe that third Olympic spot should go to the skater who earns the spot at U.S. Nationals. Period. I don't see any compelling reason to give the spot to anyone else -- unless, of course, Wagner finishes 3rd. Unless injured, Wagner should go no matter what, IMHO.

    O-
    As long as that skater isn't propped up ala Agnes.

  11. #331

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    Ashley has really earned her trip the past 3 seasons, I totally agree. I think she is more worthy than the combined efforts of the next 3 US ladies. Can we send Ashley Wagner x3 to the games? If one of them goes clean then that Ashley will likely end up on the podium, the other two will obviously be top 6 as they will have solid skates. The girl is a fighter.

    ETA: I'm alright with Ashley x2 and Gracie Gold x1
    Not if South Korea sends Yu-Na Kim x3.

  12. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    As long as that skater isn't propped up ala Agnes.
    Yep, I hear you, and agreed. Agnes has been completely unremarkable this season. Maybe that will change come Nationals, but, if not, I want the judging to reflect what is put out on the ice.

    O-

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    Not if South Korea sends Yu-Na Kim x3.
    WHOA. I take it back, we can only send one of each skater! hahahaha. We can't compete with Yuna x3!

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I also believe that third Olympic spot should go to the skater who earns the spot at U.S. Nationals. Period. I don't see any compelling reason to give the spot to anyone else -- unless, of course, Wagner finishes 3rd. Unless injured, Wagner should go no matter what, IMHO.

    O-
    Did you mean if Wagner finished fourth?

    Anyways, while I agree with the sentiment, I am more inclined to believe that certain skaters will be 'supported' to 'earn' their spot for Sochi.

  15. #335

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    Any news on Gracie's new SP? I thought she was to perform it sometime this week. I'd be interested in the music choices, how she performed, anyone's impressions.

  16. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Any news on Gracie's new SP? I thought she was to perform it sometime this week. I'd be interested in the music choices, how she performed, anyone's impressions.
    Reportedly it's Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor - some show reports/mixed reviews starting here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4077177

    ETA that Gracie's SP music is from the second and third movements of Grieg's piano concerto - video link has been posted in a new GSD thread here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...-short-program
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-13-2013 at 03:43 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #337
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    Gracie just needs to land her jumps simple as that. She can spend next season getting better programs since she won't be looking for a coach like she was this season. If she lands her jumps she's going to Sochi. I don't see her being clean at Nationals because she hasn't had a competition as a Senior where she was clean but it would be interesting if she did. Wagner might be a bit worried about getting that 3rd title.
    Last edited by Jammers; 12-12-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  18. #338

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Did you mean if Wagner finished fourth?

    Anyways, while I agree with the sentiment, I am more inclined to believe that certain skaters will be 'supported' to 'earn' their spot for Sochi.
    I guess, in actuality, I meant if Wagner finished 2nd or 3rd -- since those placements aren't guaranteed Olympic spots -- though historically they've been awarded them.

    (The context of my post was in response to those posts specifically discussing the 3rd spot. That's why I worded it that way.)

    O-

  19. #339

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    Actually none of the medalists are guaranteed an Olympic spot (if any of them were, Nationals would become an Olympic trial and USFSA would have to pay $$$ to the USOC). However, in reality, all the medalists are extremely likely to get sent to Sochi.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    As long as that skater isn't propped up ala Agnes.
    ^^^
    THIS!

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