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  1. #21

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    eurosport - cause for concern

    german eurosport speakers mentioned during the grand prix, that there will be no live feed rom european championships in budapest.
    every evening there will be a summary 'hour' of the day, starting 11pm. ouch.

  2. #22

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    Why is there a doom and gloom view of figure skating? If we think figure skating can compete with soccer, basketball, baseball and the likes of team and highly masculine sports, we are hallucinating. If you think it is bad in Canada (which I personally don't think so judging from the local news), it is non-existent in Australia. As far as I am concern, being a f.s. fan, my ability to access live streaming is a joy.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #23

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    From the article:

    Sportsnet has been filling most of its Saturday nights with figure skating since it launched last October. The skating programs, featuring mostly taped Grand Prix series events, have been averaging a solid 200,000-250,000 viewers.
    And current Skate Canada ratings:

    Fri Oct 25: Skate Canada — 228,000 TSN
    Sat Oct 26: Skate Canada — 666,000 CTV
    And the problem is...

    So, it's no longer competing with hockey--although if you were a Canucks fan back in the late 90's, no doubt people would think Shae and Elvis were more entertaining. Oh no's.

  4. #24
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    It IS disappointing how skating popularity has taken such a downturn in Canada. I seem to recall such rabid audiences in the 90s during their Nationals and Worlds in the Kurt v. Elvis era.

  5. #25
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    There is no way that at this point in time figure skating could ever rival Hockey Night in Canada. Just because we all know it can't (literally EVERYONE I know watches HNIC), doesn't mean that skating is dead and that no one is watching. That's like comparing Kevin Reynolds to Patrick Chan. We all know one is more popular, but that doesn't mean the other doesn't have significant merits of his own. The quit if you're not on top mentality has to stop. Skating is holding its own, just as Kevin Reynolds is in my arbitrary example.

    It is relevant in Canada... I can tell because I have more and more non-skaters talking to me about skating, Tessa and Scott, Patrick Chan, results etc. I see more and more posts about skating results on the facebook walls of non-skaters/casual fans. And it's on the news and radio after every event, and it's still in the newspapers quite a bit. None of these things would happen in a sport that no one is watching.

    I wish this doom and gloom attitude would go away. The judging system is better for skaters, worse for casual fans. The popularity will not rival the 90's, but it doesn't have to.

  6. #26

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    sorry, duplicate post
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Why is there a doom and gloom view of figure skating? If we think figure skating can compete with soccer, basketball, baseball and the likes of team and highly masculine sports, we are hallucinating. If you think it is bad in Canada (which I personally don't think so judging from the local news), it is non-existent in Australia. As far as I am concern, being a f.s. fan, my ability to access live streaming is a joy.
    This is where live streaming really does come into it's own. This year's Australian Nationals will be streamed live, probably via Youtube. Without it no-one except those who are there would see it because the TV stations are not going to run it. The advantage of doing it this way it cost very little to run a live stream so is pretty cost effective way of doing it. It has the advantage of providing great accessibility to see events. I think there probably needs to be a greater focus on doing it in more creative ways so that you still have a good revenue stream.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    From the article:



    And current Skate Canada ratings:



    And the problem is...
    I guess none. As long as declining interest and therefore tv revenue and sponsorship is of no concern to you. Or that it remains on a major network in the future. Oh and all of which means money for development. Then no problem at all.

  9. #29

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    Oh and the taped Grand Prix events were the other Grand Prixs, not skate Canada. No Skate Canada International program was drawing that kind of low number. Doubt the other Grand Prixs are drawing that now. You have to actualy read the article. You can try to argue all you want but face it, ratings have tanked and this is not good news.

  10. #30

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    The first thing I was taught ages ago when I was in college aspiring to a career in the broadcast industry:

    There are three kinds of lies:

    1. Lies
    2. Damned Lies
    3. Ratings

    The numbers themselves are meaningless unless you put them into context. If the advertising is reaching its target audience, smaller numbers are probably better than huge numbers of viewers with misdirected advertising.

    No doubt the raw numbers are smaller than they were almost 15 years ago, but the broadcast industry itself has changed as well. With more choice, PVRs, internet, the numbers will never be as high as they were. But if you're just going to go by the numbers, I'd say getting 600K on a Saturday night isn't doing too badly.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
    The numbers themselves are meaningless unless you put them into context. If the advertising is reaching its target audience, smaller numbers are probably better than huge numbers of viewers with misdirected advertising.

    No doubt the raw numbers are smaller than they were almost 15 years ago, but the broadcast industry itself has changed as well. With more choice, PVRs, internet, the numbers will never be as high as they were. But if you're just going to go by the numbers, I'd say getting 600K on a Saturday night isn't doing too badly.
    Agree and disagree. First, from a financial perspective, I'm sure its not reaching its target market, that is, a market you can sell to ie. 18 - 35 years old. Why, because they are the ones less set in their ways in terms of purchasing of good and services and therefore desirable to advertisers. Older people are much less likely to change financial institutions etc. There is lots of press on this and a problem that is shared by some other sports such as curling. Second, raw numbers in prime time have not declined significantly for other shows and sports. And lastly, I'd say 600K in prime time on a saturday night on the main CTV network is not very good. Can probably draw that for a rerun of one of their other programs. Plus another factor is that it must cost CTV to produce FS events. I've been to events and seen the TV trailers. That can't be cheap.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mont View Post
    Agree and disagree.
    ...
    I think we're more on the same wavelength more than you may realize.

    First off, a lot of ad agencies still think in terms of total viewers without digging into demographic data. If you take a look at the top 30 tv shows from BBM the week of Skate Canada:

    http://www.bbm.ca/_documents/top_30_...ionalTop30.pdf

    The bottom-rated programs don't even come close.

    One of the nice things about the new guard at the helm of Skate Canada is that they come from a marketing background. This is starting to show in that they have snagged Canadian Tire as a title Sponsor. Can you think of a better company that appeals to virtually every gender, income, and age group? Kraft foods is also dipping their toes in the water as well. Now, contrast that with previous sponsors. Frying pans, hand lotion, jewellery and hair-bands have a much more niche-market appeal. (although I became a fan a Cetaphil skin lotion because it works for me and _doesn't_ make me smell like a girl. )

    As for CTV's television production costs, once again, it's a matter of putting things into perspective. In this case, this counts toward CTV's commitment to the CRTC in terms of production of original and probably local programming. Just be aware that not every decision to produce programming is because is generates a profit.

    Personally, I'm a tad disappointed in CTV's coverage and it's kind of depressing to think that in order to see _all_ the skaters, I had to go and download the Eurosport coverage from a torrent site.

  13. #33

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    Personally, I'm a tad disappointed in CTV's coverage and it's kind of depressing to think that in order to see _all_ the skaters, I had to go and download the Eurosport coverage from a torrent site.
    But the commentators are so much better!

    CTV has been pretty good with showing all the skaters the previous two Skate Canada's--it's Nationals that sucks.

    It'll be interesting how CBC does with Worlds now that BOLD is kaput.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    But the commentators are so much better!
    Wow Canadian skating commentary must really suck!

  15. #35

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    [
    QUOTE=Peter_K;4044191]I think we're more on the same wavelength more than you may realize.

    First off, a lot of ad agencies still think in terms of total viewers without digging into demographic data. If you take a look at the top 30 tv shows from BBM the week of Skate Canada:

    http://www.bbm.ca/_documents/top_30_...ionalTop30.pdf
    Perhaps. But no matter how you cut it, its no where near any of those programs. And actually, in the case of figure skating, I'm worried about what will happen IF they dig into the numbers.

    One of the nice things about the new guard at the helm of Skate Canada is that they come from a marketing background. This is starting to show in that they have snagged Canadian Tire as a title Sponsor. Can you think of a better company that appeals to virtually every gender, income, and age group?
    I hope so. However, I would point out that Canadian Tire was onboard before the new CEO so I wouldn't be so quick to reach the conclusion that the new guard snagged Canadian Tire. As for the effectiveness of that sponsorship, time will tell. I have been disappointed so far as when I've been in my local Canadian Tire as I have seen absolutely no presence for Skate Canada and I've been looking. So its great IF they activate on it but if its just a defensive sponsorship to protect their skating position (hockey equipment etc), then it won't do much for Skate Canada.

    As for CTV's television production costs, once again, it's a matter of putting things into perspective. In this case, this counts toward CTV's commitment to the CRTC in terms of production of original and probably local programming. Just be aware that not every decision to produce programming is because is generates a profit.
    Oh I am aware of this. Maybe some of what you say is the case but I am very skeptical that it will remain on the main network if its losing money.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    But the commentators are so much better!

    CTV has been pretty good with showing all the skaters the previous two Skate Canada's--it's Nationals that sucks.

    It'll be interesting how CBC does with Worlds now that BOLD is kaput.
    Yeah, but CTV actually didn't show _all_ the skaters at SC. If I recall correctly, they only showed the final flight of the Men's Free and spent the entire previous hour showing recaps and fluff pieces.

    Ok. I'll admit I'm spoiled with what we had with the coverage on Bold. But those days are gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Wow Canadian skating commentary must really suck!
    I've always believed that commentators are like Scotch. They can be an acquired taste.

    Funny thing is, when you see it live or watch a raw feed, you can't help but feel that something is missing.

    --Peter

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    But the commentators are so much better!
    So true. I request that the British commentators cover figure skating events in Germany, too. The German ones are ok but the British commentators are stars among the Spanisch, Italian, Russian etc. commentators who don't stop talking.

    A shame that German Eurosport won't cover Europeans. Hopefully there will be reliable skating fans from UK or Japan (??) who upload everything to youtube. Thanks to those guys!! Very much appreciated.

  18. #38

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    I just really wish that cbc.ca would offer live stream and archive it, as they did when BOLD was covering FS. They know we can't get the stream Americans get, but don't seem to care about offering us a similar option. This bothers me much more than the decline in ratings for FS.

    I can pretty much never watch live stream due to time issues. So I'm stuck with the vids that are posted and CBCs generally scant coverage.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vocal View Post
    So true. I request that the British commentators cover figure skating events in Germany, too. The German ones are ok but the British commentators are stars among the Spanisch, Italian, Russian etc. commentators who don't stop talking.

    A shame that German Eurosport won't cover Europeans. Hopefully there will be reliable skating fans from UK or Japan (??) who upload everything to youtube. Thanks to those guys!! Very much appreciated.
    If German Eurosport isn't going to cover Europeans, the chances of British Eurosport covering it are even less. I'd say your best bet would be Japan.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mont View Post
    Lest we think that figure skating is recovering in Canada, here is a harsh dose of reality. Here are the TV ratings for Skate Canada International. This is in an Olympic year with three Canadian world medalists competing!

    Fri Oct 25: Skate Canada — 228,000 TSN
    Sat Oct 26: Skate Canada — 666,000 CTV

    The break down of those numbers aren't easily accessed publicly but no matter how you cut it these are bad numbers. Especially when you consider they likely skew older. The disconnect to the casual fan is really bad. And TV numbers matter for visibility and sponsorship, and for that matter, staying on TV. One can only imagine where these numbers will be next year, especially if high profile skaters (a bit of an oxymoron apparently) retire.

    The inaction of the federations and ISU is killing this sport.
    First there were no figure skating books at that library book sale. And now this. The zombie apocalypse is here.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

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