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  1. #1
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    Nathalie and Fabian

    I am sure that people will never agree as to whether they love or hate the new programs from this team. One thing that I have always criticized this team for was that Fabian's expression was the worst of all the male ice dancers. Nathalie carried the team in my opinion and she also technically was better. I still believe there is more road to travel with Fabian's positions and his one skating when he and Nathalie are not touching but am I the only one who thinks that his presentation is MUCH improved?

    Also, I take my hat off to Igor. His professionalism shines through by the fact that he is able to help this team AND let them remain true to their creative vision

    Thoughts?

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    I love the programs! (And I'm not usually a fan of this team, but I really like them this season! Go figure...) In the sd I had no clue that Fabian was even there, because Nathalie was selling it! She has such a presence and personality, that it's easy to overlook him. That being said, I did actually notice him in the fd, and thought it was lovely. I looove that upside down lift. It's one of my favorites of the season from any team! As to Fabian's improvement, sorry, I can't really comment on that because I haven't really paid him much attention in the past.

    I'm also glad Igor didn't change the programs. They put a lot of time and consideration into designing that FD, and I found it to be really effective at conveying the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    I am sure that people will never agree as to whether they love or hate the new programs from this team. One thing that I have always criticized this team for was that Fabian's expression was the worst of all the male ice dancers. Nathalie carried the team in my opinion and she also technically was better. I still believe there is more road to travel with Fabian's positions and his one skating when he and Nathalie are not touching but am I the only one who thinks that his presentation is MUCH improved?
    I don't find Fabian at all lacking in expression, certainly not compared to "all the male ice dancers". I agree that Nathalie is a fantastic actress on ice, so in comparison he can look more muted, but if he were to match her it would be too much. Technically, my impression has always been that he's a better dancer but not as consistent.

    As for their programs, it seems an almost annual tradition for people to say that their new free dance isn't as good as their previous ones, so I'm glad that this time more fans are connecting with their FD right off the bat.

    Personally I love them and really want them to medal in Sochi.

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    Regardless of how one loves or hates their programs, one has to admit that their programs are distinctive and unlike anyone else's. Nowadays how many skaters, especially in ice dance, can say that? Especially in the environment of pressure from both the meticulous rules and the conservative-minded judges who want to see everyone do the same thing so that it is easier to judge and less controversial? They take full charge of the themes and concepts of their free dance programs and do not let their coaches dictate what's best for them. How many skaters nowadays can do that? Pechalat and Bourzat embody the idea (gasp) that there is more to skating and competition than winning. They care a lot about what they are skating to. Perhaps that is a luxury most competitors cannot afford and I don't blame them, but my hats off to these two for being their own skaters.

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    Love EVERYTHING they have done.
    I remember watching them at the Worlds in 04' & having a terrible Free Dance with several trips. They have come a long way.
    With D/W & V/M you know that 99% of the time they will skate clean yet with Nathalie & Fabian it's edge of your seat stuff.
    D/W & V/M = Roger Federer in his prime
    Nathalie & Fabian = Andre Agassi in his prime...............you never knew what you were gonna get !

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    I just don't find Fabian to be lacking. I do think that while he is good, technically, he has problems with consistency. I think that he does a great job of being the "support" for their elaborate and difficult lifts, without exhibiting any signs of strain. One thing that I really love about this team, and what makes them my favorite team is that they are distinctly a man and a woman dancing on the ice. I find that Fabian's masculinity really stands out among the ice dancers, and I appreciate that. On the downside, if there is one, it makes them stand out because they don't exhibit matching lines, etc. Nathalie's expression is one of a true performer and I think they use their strengths well.I don't understand the assessments of them being subpar technically. Unfortunately, the judging system we have is so biases/flawed and inconsistent in ice dancing that unless they mop up the ice, I can't understand their placements, most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnative View Post
    I just don't find Fabian to be lacking. I do think that while he is good, technically, he has problems with consistency. I think that he does a great job of being the "support" for their elaborate and difficult lifts, without exhibiting any signs of strain. One thing that I really love about this team, and what makes them my favorite team is that they are distinctly a man and a woman dancing on the ice. I find that Fabian's masculinity really stands out among the ice dancers, and I appreciate that. On the downside, if there is one, it makes them stand out because they don't exhibit matching lines, etc. Nathalie's expression is one of a true performer and I think they use their strengths well.I don't understand the assessments of them being subpar technically. Unfortunately, the judging system we have is so biases/flawed and inconsistent in ice dancing that unless they mop up the ice, I can't understand their placements, most of the time.
    While I agree with most of what you said, when have Natalie or Fabien ever been robbed of a certain placement by wrongful judging? I cant remember an instance. I do remember many thinking Weaver & Poje deserved the bronze at the 2012 Worlds instead of them though.

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    I'm not saying that they have ever been robbed, necessarily. I'm saying that the judging system seems to be inconsistent/biased toward certain skaters. If you, or anybody, can explain what was lacking in their Finnstep at CoC, recently, I would appreciate it because it would help to give me some perspective. I have read that the judges at CoC were judging the Finnstep sections "very harshly" so overall scores were lower than they were at the two previous GP events. Is that true? If so, why judge "harshly" at one GP event and not at others?

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    How are the other ice dance teams not distinctly a man and a woman?

    That said, I do find Fabian to be pretty sexy on the ice.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    While I agree with most of what you said, when have Natalie or Fabien ever been robbed of a certain placement by wrongful judging? I cant remember an instance. I do remember many thinking Weaver & Poje deserved the bronze at the 2012 Worlds instead of them though.
    I can think of a few times Nathalie & Fabian were harshly treated. I would have had them with a European Bronze in 08' & Silver in 09'. If you can say robbed or not..................Who knows.
    The 2012 Worlds IMO was correct. W/P are good skaters but I felt that Nathalie & Fabain just edged it. Mostly in the SD.
    W/P have a lot of fan's just like D/W & V/M. I was raised in both the US & UK but watch feel like I have to stand up for the European skaters a little more.
    Me biased ?.............YES !

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    While I agree with most of what you said, when have Natalie or Fabien ever been robbed of a certain placement by wrongful judging? I cant remember an instance. I do remember many thinking Weaver & Poje deserved the bronze at the 2012 Worlds instead of them though.
    I think you could make a strong case for them deserving bronze at Worlds 2010... and even with the fall in 2011 I would have had them ahead of the Shibs, the PCS marks the Shibs were getting that season were a joke.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    While I agree with most of what you said, when have Natalie or Fabien ever been robbed of a certain placement by wrongful judging? I cant remember an instance. I do remember many thinking Weaver & Poje deserved the bronze at the 2012 Worlds instead of them though.
    They should have finished higher at 2009 Euros. But the issue with P/B, IMO, is more the marks than the placements - both when they were the second French team and how far behind D/W and V/M they were before Fabian's injury.

    Re 2012, while I think W/P are lovely skaters, they did not appear to be at P/B's level in 2012. And I suspect that if, say, a Russian team had skated their Je Suis Malade, people would have called it overwrought or over the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    They should have finished higher at 2009 Euros. But the issue with P/B, IMO, is more the marks than the placements - both when they were the second French team and how far behind D/W and V/M they were before Fabian's injury.

    Re 2012, while I think W/P are lovely skaters, they did not appear to be at P/B's level in 2012. And I suspect that if, say, a Russian team had skated their Je Suis Malade, people would have called it overwrought or over the top.
    a) Do you think that's because D/W and V/M were overmarked or that these two were undermarked? Or both?

    b) Is this a discusison thread or a fan thread? Because I don't want to be annoying if it's the latter. Either way, my favourite program they did was their 07/08 Flamenco OD and their 08/09 EX ("Andy"). And I find I'm rooting for French skaters this season simply because of their federation's less than desirous tactics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    a) Do you think that's because D/W and V/M were overmarked or that these two were undermarked? Or both?

    b) Is this a discusison thread or a fan thread? Because I don't want to be annoying if it's the latter. Either way, my favourite program they did was their 07/08 Flamenco OD and their 08/09 EX ("Andy"). And I find I'm rooting for French skaters this season simply because of their federation's less than desirous tactics.
    a. both, but mainly the former.

    b. I vote for it to be a discussion thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Re 2012, while I think W/P are lovely skaters, they did not appear to be at P/B's level in 2012. And I suspect that if, say, a Russian team had skated their Je Suis Malade, people would have called it overwrought or over the top.
    And I suspect more people would be saying what a genius program it was and how the classical Russian style was back in full-force. I also suspect their PCS would be higher as well.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    And I suspect more people would be saying what a genius program it was and how the classical Russian style was back in full-force. I also suspect their PCS would be higher as well.
    Because the programs of the recent Russian ice dance teams have garnered such enthusiastic responses?

    I was not referring the judging and politikking but to public and fan reactions.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Because the programs of the recent Russian ice dance teams have garnered such enthusiastic responses?

    I was not referring the judging and politikking but to public and fan reactions.
    It would have much more enthusiasm if they did that routine to Je Suis Malade in the same understated costumes that W/P wore. I still think B/S's costumes helped them a lot last season because it was much more in vogue to what is in style now (that and their routines were better received and W/P and P/B were both suffering injuries while the Shibs got dumped and I/K were just not in top form).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    I'm so happy that Nathalie & Fabian will continue skating in shows. Wishing both of them success in all their new endeavors!

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    I am too, Stephanatic! I think their skating is really well suited to the professional world. Hope to see some professional competitions crop up in the coming years as an alternative to what the ISU is offering... I think Nathalie and Fabian would really excel as professional competitors.

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