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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyskater View Post
    BS were not great. They were not great at all. I wonder whether the judges are slating them from Oly Bronze? Truth is, however, I think IK will surpass BS for Oly Bronze. You heard it here first!
    And yet, even with the ridiculous overscoring of B/S in the SD, their score was still less than what I/K's SD received at TEB last weekend

  2. #122
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    The W/P thread thinks it's the end of the World.
    It always happens.
    The free dance will be very interesting.
    I think the gap will shorten.
    I do think B/S were a little stronger yesterday.
    It's close but W/P fan's seem to think they have a right to first place.
    That's too unfair on other couples.
    B/S were ahead of them at the Worlds in March so it's not a massive shock.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunhead View Post
    BS' twizzles in the SD were not clean. How is this worthy of level 4? (Starts at 6:13)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3QriHFPl7k

    If VM had a similar problem mid-twizzle, their scores would get dinged in both levels and GOE. <sideeye>
    I think the levels on the twizzles are determined by difficult entrance/ number of rotations. For instance if they catch their blade, to count as level 4 it has to be half a rotation before the twizzles start (I believe, )The execution is taken into account in the GOE. Sometimes the mess up makes one partner a rotation short and then it counts in the level. (Apparently this is what happened to VM at worlds, though I counted the correct number of rotations...)

    Pretty much we can know the rules as well as we want to, but we can't make the tech panel apply them. But they do have better angles and replay. I would agree that sometimes the tech panel makes questionable calls (looking at you TEB), but I haven't really analyzed CoR yet. I'll get there eventually...

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    NVM you're right. The twizzles were WTF too.

    M/C received a level 3 for these twizzles, deservedly so, they weren't their best twizzles.

    http://youtu.be/qbSM9rWySZw?t=1m49s

    ...but if that's a level 3, how it this a level 4.

    http://youtu.be/y3QriHFPl7k?t=1m52s

    Again, V/M received a level 3 for this comparatively small bobble. I see you Russia and it's not cool.
    http://youtu.be/t46vJL8ABrs?t=2m11s
    Here ya go. Scroll to page 20 for twizzle levels (the page numbered 20 at the bottom). http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14...Difficulty.pdf

    I would analyze these for you, but honestly I'm not up for it right now, sorry! One has to be in the mood for this kind of crap, er, twizzle calling.

  5. #125
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    The judging at COR was awful. W/P should have won. They should have won the free dance buy a lot more than they did. I did think B/S were slightly better/stronger in the SD but their FD was way below par.
    I think this is a bad sign for Sochi.
    P/B may get slowly buried before then.
    I wish the Russian Fed would push I/K rather than B/S as they (For me) have the wow factor.
    What does everybody think will happen at the Grand Prix Finals ?.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    Here ya go. Scroll to page 20 for twizzle levels (the page numbered 20 at the bottom). http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14...Difficulty.pdf

    I would analyze these for you, but honestly I'm not up for it right now, sorry! One has to be in the mood for this kind of crap, er, twizzle calling.
    You are just a delightful person, aren't you...
    Last edited by Jessiebanana; 11-24-2013 at 06:53 PM.

  7. #127

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    Do you really think it matters who actually IS the better pair as far as skating is concerned in a discipline such as ICE DANCE?^^
    Sweet.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

    Bruce Lee

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    You are just a delightful person, aren't you...
    Wow. How rude. You asked why certain twizzles were called certain levels and I gave you the link as an answer. Apparently you were more interested in useless speculation than an actual informative answer, my bad. And yes, I am quite delightful, thank you!

  9. #129
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    Well, I thank your for sharing the pdf file, MissJD, especially since I don't know a lot about certain twizzles and levels. This will help me a lot and I appreciate the information.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  10. #130
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    Hey, dropping in to let anyone who's interested know that there's a new news & analysis site for ice dance (and pairs) that has some cool features: http://www.twofortheice.com/

    They have a survey going on right now for ice dance fans here. I took it and it's got some interesting questions, so I thought I'd pass it along. I'll be curious to read about the results when it's done.

    Here's hoping everyone who qualified for the GPF skates their best (and gets scored accordingly)!

  11. #131
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    Let's hope the judging is much better in Japan.
    There maybe a backlash against B/S after such poor judging at COR but I really hope they improve their Free Dance.

  12. #132

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    Stabiisky said only one team, who need change FD - VM
    He think BS is really cool and very dramatic
    http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014...703635989.html
    Use google translate

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Stabiisky said only one team, who need change FD - VM
    He think BS is really cool and very dramatic
    http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014...703635989.html
    Use google translate
    The only problem I have with V/M FD is it's a little bit like the one in 2010. Slow paced almost classical. I would have liked to see them do something really out there. If they win Gold next year in Sochi & play their two OG's together there would be very little difference in mood.

  14. #134
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    ISU Grand Prix article, here's the part about ice dance... apparently they decided Nat and Fab won silver at TEB, lol. (probably just an oversight)

    World Champions Meryl Davis/Charlie White (USA) and World silver medalists Tessa Virtue/Scott Moir (CAN) qualified with two gold medals from their two events. Davis/White won in the USA and in Japan, Virtue/Moir came out on top in Canada and in France. Ekaterina Bobrova/Dmitri Soloviev (RUS) and Nathalie Pechalat/Fabian Bourzat (FRA) picked up a gold and a silver medal en route to the Final.

    Kaitlyn Weaver/Andrew Poje (CAN) and Anna Cappellini/Luca Lanotte (ITA) qualified with two silver medals for Fukuoka. All couples have been to the Final before. The substitutes are Elena Ilinykh/ Nikita Katsalapov (RUS), Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani (USA) and Madison Chock/Evan Bates (USA)
    And here are the GP scores compared, just in case anyone is interested! I'm really looking forward to the final! I just hope everyone skates their best and receives the scores they deserve!

    DW at SkAM 188.23
    DW at NHK 186.65
    VM at SC 181.03
    VM at TEB 180.96
    WP at SC 175.23
    PB at TEB 171.08
    CL at SkAM 168.49
    BS at CoR 168.32
    PB at CoC 165.68
    BS at CoC 163.42
    WP at CoR 163.14
    CL at NHK 160.06

  15. #135

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    That's a funny article. Patrick Chan has a World best score -Davis & White are credited with a personal best FD - but it is also a World Record FD, which the article doesn't mention.
    And as you said, they say Nat & Fab beat I&K at TEB...: as they should have.
    http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/phsdfd.htm

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    ISU Grand Prix article, here's the part about ice dance... apparently they decided Nat and Fab won silver at TEB, lol. (probably just an oversight)



    And here are the GP scores compared, just in case anyone is interested! I'm really looking forward to the final! I just hope everyone skates their best and receives the scores they deserve!

    DW at SkAM 188.23
    DW at NHK 186.65
    VM at SC 181.03
    VM at TEB 180.96
    WP at SC 175.23
    PB at TEB 171.08
    CL at SkAM 168.49
    BS at CoR 168.32
    PB at CoC 165.68
    BS at CoC 163.42
    WP at CoR 163.14
    CL at NHK 160.06
    Its interesting how V/M's score barely dropped between SC and TEB -only by 0.07 points.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Its interesting how V/M's score barely dropped between SC and TEB -only by 0.07 points.
    I think it would be interesting if they would have skated better in one of those events, and worse in the other. But it so happened that they skated their SD better at TEB, and FD better (more precisely, with less mistakes) at SC, so it leveled out.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I think it would be interesting if they would have skated better in one of those events, and worse in the other. But it so happened that they skated their SD better at TEB, and FD better (more precisely, with less mistakes) at SC, so it leveled out.
    When you think of it they did the same thing in 2009 GP - with mistakes in the OD at SC and Mistakes in the FD at TEB (they got -2.00 deductions too!) maybe history repeating itself?

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I think the levels on the twizzles are determined by difficult entrance/ number of rotations. For instance if they catch their blade, to count as level 4 it has to be half a rotation before the twizzles start
    The number of rotations are indeed the starting point for assigning levels. Here is my attempt to summarize the ISU guidance on twizzle levels:

    Level 1- set of two twizzles on different edges, at least one rotation each

    Level 2 - two twizzles have different entry edge and turn in different direction + at least 2 rotations each + either:
    Option 1 - change of foot or steps between twizzles + 2 different added features
    Option 2 - skated on one foot + 1 added feature

    (Added features are grouped by position variations involving A) arms and upper body, B) leg positions, and C) other things like at least 3 rotations, partners crossing patterns, mirror twizzles, twizzles with partners face to face or back to back, entrance from a dance jump, third twizzle of at least 3 rotations)

    Level 3 - two twizzles have different entry edge and turn in different direction + at least 3 rotations each + either:
    Option 1 - change of foot or steps between twizzles + 2 different added features from different groups
    Option 2 - skated on one foot + 2 added features from from any group

    Level 4 - two twizzles have different entry edge and turn in different direction + at least 4 rotations each + either:
    Option 1 - change of foot or steps between twizzles + 3 different added features (one from each group)
    Option 2 - skated on one foot + 2 added features from from different groups

    When levels are lost due to errors it is usually because one of the partners lost control of the edge (resulting in 3-turns rather than twizzles), which costs them rotations.

    As MissJD mentioned, another common error relates to problems or delays grabbing the blade or boot.

  20. #140
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    Thanks for laying it out for us Susan! So many considerations!

    There are also a few things that require a deduction of one (or two) levels such as pirouetting a rotation, even though the correct number is there! (I only mention this one because I've also seen it a few times this season!)

    Glad I'm just an arm chair judge! haha

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