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  1. #21

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    Hertmirsh, your argument built on pretending a triple-triple did not happen is the stupidest thing I have ever read on a figure skating board unless you do not think figure skating is an athletic sport, in which case neither deserved to even be at the Olympics. So which is your argument, stupid or a declaration that figure skating is not an athletic sport?

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    Kerrigan's skate was highly complete but unimpressive (and definitely not memorable as time goes by).

    Baiul's skate was entertaining but lacking in many areas, both technically and choreographically.

    Chen and Sato should have placed top 2 in the free.

    And the so-called controversy about the men's result was only created by the NA media. It was a freaking 8-1 split between them. Petrenko, Browning and Candeloro also stole ordinals from these two but Urmanov was way ahead with 6 1st ordinals while the other 3 went to Stojko, Petrenko and Candeloro, one each. Stojko also had some lower ordinals but was going to win silver anyway because he was ahead of Petrenko and Browning by too much after the short.

    I personally would have given the free to Petrenko, 2nd and 3rd to Browning and Urmanov in some order. But Urmanov was the undoubted winner in my mind.
    Last edited by Marco; 11-02-2013 at 06:57 AM.

  3. #23
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    Yes, I also had Lu Chen winning the LP. And Sato 2nd.

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    Thanks for the retrospective, Maofan7. I've watched 6 Olympics now as a figure skating fan, and Lillehammer remains my favorite by far. The beautiful Nordic setting, the hospitality and friendliness of the Norwegian athletes/fans, and brilliant skating by some of the greatest legends of the sport all combined for a near-perfect Olympic experience.

    The highlight for me was the return of Gordeeva/Grinkov. Such incredible, breathtaking skating. I'll never forget their performances in Lillehammer. And ice dance was memorable that year, if not lacking in controversy. Much as I dislike Gritschuk as a person, I still remember the excitement of her & Platov's free dance. It was almost like a foretaste of the changes to come later with IJS. And the Nancy vs. Oksana battle was pretty interesting too. Oksana was like a force of nature, Nancy was the classic American ladies champion, and there were a lot of other great ladies in the event, too. Katarina Witt was not competitive technically, but both her programs were artistically satisfying and very well performed. The only discipline that didn't excite me much was men's. Too many mistakes from the stars (and sentimental favorites): Browning, Petrenko, and Boitano.

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    Whether or not Boitano was any kind of betting favorite, I dont think he was any kind of sentimental favorite, except for his devoted fans (though he has many of those). His fellow American teammates seemed to openly resent his comeback, the press was not exactly supportive, and the judges were lukewarm (he lost both his pre Olympic events, one of them his own Nationals). It sure contrasted to the global wave of hefty support the comebacks of people like G&G, T&D, and even the now uncompetitive Witt (although I loved her comeback and her Lillehammer performances) received.

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    Wasn't Boitano the one who spearheaded the reinstatement by whining about it for years, even going so far as to say he didn't get a chance to enjoy the Olympic experience to his satisfaction in 1988? Boo hoo. He always came off as so self-absorbed. I am not surprised if his American teammates weren't warm to him.

  8. #28
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    He the one who created the reinstatement as he was the only one pushing for it. The others who came back and did well have him to thank, but this also might largely be why he was the least supported and rooted of the reinstated pros, as it was he who pushed for and got the reinstatement. So those who were upset with it (and many were) would cast the blame on him, not on Gordeeva & Grinkov, Torvill & Dean, Witt, Petrenko, and others who simply took advantage of what Boitano alone pushed the ISU for and eventually got.

    It was ironic that given that of all the reinstated pros he was the one who probably had the worst and most unsatisfying comeback. Witt, Susie Wynn, Roca Sur, are reinstated pros who had worse results, but nobody expected anything of those by that point. Of the ones who had big expectations- G&G, T&D, Boitano, Petrenko, and M&D, Boitano's comeback results were by a long ways the worst. Petrenko atleast won Europeans, Skate America (over Boitano), and came 4th at the Games with a gold medal winning LP had he not botched the short program. Boitano couldnt win any competitions in his comeback, not even his own Nationals, and even his LP in Lillehammer was only 6th placed.

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    And Scott Davis truly did deserve to beat him at nationals. What a performance. Oh what might have been for his career...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Lillehammer was by far the most unique and strange Olympic figure skating event in history.

    2 years from the previous Olympics, reinstated pros for the only time ever, Tonya and Nancy, the first Olympics with ex Soviets competing for new countries; and debates over the winners in all 4 disciplines still a full 2 decades later, with a large group of people arguing for all 4 silver medalists, and in some cases (dance, maybe ladies and men) even the bronze medalists too. There will never be another Olympic figure skating competition remotedly like it, for better or worse.
    The "medals" were also made of stone.

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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Wasn't Boitano the one who spearheaded the reinstatement by whining about it for years, even going so far as to say he didn't get a chance to enjoy the Olympic experience to his satisfaction in 1988? Boo hoo. He always came off as so self-absorbed. I am not surprised if his American teammates weren't warm to him.
    I'm glad someone said this.

    Yes, I enjoyed Boitano's 1988 Oly win. But he seemed to never stop talking about it, in great detail. Then, when he came back in '94, he was even more obnoxious. I think he fully expected to win the Olympics. Nothing wrong with that, but he was not a particularly gracious loser at Nationals or at the Olys.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    I'm glad someone said this.

    Yes, I enjoyed Boitano's 1988 Oly win. But he seemed to never stop talking about it, in great detail. Then, when he came back in '94, he was even more obnoxious. I think he fully expected to win the Olympics. Nothing wrong with that, but he was not a particularly gracious loser at Nationals or at the Olys.
    I do agree with that totally. His attitude in his comeback was very arrogant and obnoxious and despite that as a pro competitor and in his former amateur career I had liked him, I found myself rooting against him, and happy to see his comeback go somewhat mediocre in the end. Unlike Browning and Petrenko who I genuinely felt bad for at the Games (especialy Browning, Petrenko atleast had his 92 gold).

    Ironically even though I am a big fan of Orser, I found his attitude towards Boitano from 86-88 to be quite similar. Somewhat condescending and dismissive of Boitano, and not even giving his fellow competitor the respect he deserved. Brian B. after Calgary and his dominant pro career had become the MAN though, and seemed to take over that attitude, but to a far greater extreme. I guess that comes with success at times.

    I wonder if Todd didnt come down ill at Nationals if Brian would have missed the Olympic team completely despite skating quite well at Nationals. That would have been a major kick in his ego had that happened, wow.

  14. #34

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    Mmm ... I just thought Boitano was trying hard to sound sophisticated in order to play the role of an Olympian, not to be obnoxious. However, I could tell he was not speaking naturally. He did not sound like a guy from Sunnyvale. Later on, he sounded a lot more like a normal Northern Californian.

    We must remember that during Boitano's era, which was an all amateur, neither prize nor endorsement money affair, winning an OGM still had a sort of upper crust prestige.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 11-03-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Yes, I enjoyed Boitano's 1988 Oly win. But he seemed to never stop talking about it, in great detail. Then, when he came back in '94, he was even more obnoxious. I think he fully expected to win the Olympics. Nothing wrong with that, but he was not a particularly gracious loser at Nationals or at the Olys.
    Oh he never shuts up about his 88 win. Every interview he gives he manages to turn it back to his Olympic win. The final turnoff for me was when Christopher Bowman died and rather than simply commenting on Bowman's talent, or whatever, he talked more about how Bowman was the person who told him he won in 1988. Really? You can't let it go for one moment? I can't imagine the shit someone like Tara would have taken if (God forbid) Nicole Bobek had died from drug abuse, and when contacted about her death and asked to say a few words, she talked more about Nicole being the first to hug her when she won her first national title - or even at the Olympics. I truly think Boitano got away with his obnoxious behavior unscathed because he's a man and they're allowed to be more arrogant and self-absorbed.

    And when I saw Boitano in some ice show a few years after Lillehammer, his bio was oddly missing the 1994 Olympics.

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    I do wonder how Scott Davis would have done at the 93 Worlds, 94 Olympics, and 94 Worlds with his 93 and 94 U.S Nationals performances. I would guess atleast a bronze at each.

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    A relaxation in the rules allowed some skaters who had turned professional to compete at the 1994 Olympics. This enabled 1988 Olympic champions, Katarina Witt and Brian Boitano to participate.
    Viktor Petrenko also was reinstated under this rule. He had participated in Pro events in the 92-93 season.


    Dmitriev had been back skating eligible programs since fall 1993 and had not competed as a pro since fall 92, so I don't think of him as a "reinstated pro" for the 98 Olympics.
    True, he did not turn pro again after 94 and reinstate again, but he still was once a pro who had reinstated, so he was still a reinstated skater (just not newly reinstated). I also think the difference between "reinstated pro" and "skater taking year(s) away from eligible competition to tour and do shows, then competing again" is a hairsplitting one. The only difference is whether the skater did pro competitions, which don't exist anymore anyway.

    2nd mark - Nancy was clearly superior to Oksana on Performance/Execution, Transitions and perhaps Skating Skills

    I don't get how anyone can justify Oksana's win. Just don't.
    Maybe that's because you are trying to substitute your understanding of today's PCS for for the judging system that actually existed in 1994. The presentation mark was a lot more all encompassing than today's PCS (and in any event transitions and skating skills are judging technical content/difficulty/skills, not so much presentation). One of the things the presentation mark did was capture the totality of the performance, including "it factor". Baiul skated with the whole body and her whole heart, and even in the US, the general response of your average American viewer was that Baiul was the special skater that night. I think this response from the supervising judge pretty well summed it up:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/sp...-the-gold.html
    Last edited by Susan M; 11-03-2013 at 11:43 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Baiul skated with the whole body and her whole heart, and even in the US, the general response of your average American viewer was that Baiul was the special skater that night. I think this response from the supervising judge pretty well summed it up:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/sp...-the-gold.html
    Except it really was Kerrigan who used her whole body when skating. Baiul only used her whole body when dancing. I also fail to see any intricate footwork that the referee said Baiul had. In fact, I fail to see any footwork from Baiul at all. Kerrigan had a rather simplistic circular step sequence that preceded a 3sal2toe, as well as back spiral into 3loop and spread eagle into 2axel. Baiul stalked all her jumps and as high as they were, they weren't landed with nearly as much control as Kerrigan's were. Baiul's so called dynamic spins were a donut spin of around 3 revs, a flying camel into catchfoot of around 8 revs (her only good spin), a mushed up upright spin of about 3 revs and a deathdrop of about 3 revs. 3 of Kerrigan's 4 spins were over 10 revs and one was a change foot spin.

    I get that Baiul was a much more natural performer and artist, but IMO that shouldn't trump her lacking elements.

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    While I agree Kerrigan probably should have beaten Baiul for the 94 Olympic Gold (although I dont see it as the blatantly wrong decision some people do, and believe there have been many far worse decisions in skating history than that one, and greatly dislike the negative publicity Baiul got for that win); and agree there is a possible case for Chen and Sato to place higher than they did, atleast in the LP phase. I also think though too many of you are trying to use COP standards the programs and how they were marked, under both the technical and presentation marking for that matter. This is a flawed method as judges were not scoring under COP back then, and the general guidelines and values under 6.0 were radically different from COP.

  20. #40

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    It is important to remember that Oksana and Kerrigan did tie, but the tiebreaker went to Oksana, which is not blatantly wrong unless one thinks those strange qualities of the 6.0 system, like the possibility of ordinal flipping through the variations in the judges rankings or one skater "helping" another by being wedged inbetween, was just as much part of the game as skating well.

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