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  1. #121
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    I think we've agreed that Yuna, Michelle, Plushenko and Yagudin are legends , can we find other legends too?

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    IMO being a legend has less to do with popularity than what they brought to the sport (e.g. Midori Ito, Stojko, Cranston, Hamilton -as creator of SOI) and their achievements (e.g. Button, Plushenko, Yagudin, Heiss, Kwan). Achievements are not always measured with the number of titles or medals won (e.g. Janet Lynn, and some of the skaters that made the sport popular in their countries, whether they won any medals or not).

    Popularity at a certain time in history, in a certain part of the world is important, but not in defining a legend because it varies too much. It could be a small part of being a legend, but not a major part. JMO.

  3. #123
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    in short.. the word legendary is subjective. just like who is the greatest, etc.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by riveredge View Post
    in short.. the word legendary is subjective. just like who is the greatest, etc.
    Thank you.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    IMO being a legend has less to do with popularity than what they brought to the sport (e.g. Midori Ito, Stojko, Cranston, Hamilton -as creator of SOI) and their achievements (e.g. Button, Plushenko, Yagudin, Heiss, Kwan). Achievements are not always measured with the number of titles or medals won (e.g. Janet Lynn, and some of the skaters that made the sport popular in their countries, whether they won any medals or not).

    Popularity at a certain time in history, in a certain part of the world is important, but not in defining a legend because it varies too much. It could be a small part of being a legend, but not a major part. JMO.
    Janet Lynn also was predominantly responsible for making free skating more valued and more important. She was the one who basically forced the immediate reduction and eventual termination of figures (although I know there are some who wish figures were still around in some form).

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Well if the definition of being a legend is as the OP put it:hugely popular, famous, and beloved in nearly all parts of the World I would say only the following fit that category:

    Ladies- Kim Yu Na, Peggy Fleming, Midori Ito, Janet Lynn, Katarina Witt, Sonja Henjie
    Men- Kurt Browning, Dick Button, Evgeny Plushenko, Toller Cranston, John Curry, Robin Cousins, Scott Hamilton, Alexei Yagudin
    Pairs- Gordeeva & Grinkov, Shen & Zhao, Underhill & Martini, Miskutienok & Dmitriev, Berezhnaya & SikharulidzeDance- Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, Virtue & Moir
    I am glad to see the incredible B&S mentioned. I wish more people mentioned them. They combined the best of all pairs teams in history, even though they were vilified unfairly by many after the 2002 Olympics.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am glad to see the incredible B&S mentioned. I wish more people mentioned them. They combined the best of all pairs teams in history, even though they were vilified unfairly by many after the 2002 Olympics.
    ITA. As a big B&S fan, I often wonder what might have been, had Elena not failed the drug test after the 2000 Europeans. They could have been 3 or 4 times world champions entering the 2002 Olympics and probably Anton's minor error would not have caused such a brouhaha. Our media trashed this beautiful, talented pair. I consider them a legend because they combined the best qualities of the past great Russian pairs (R&Z, speed, G&G's unison and light movement across the ice, M&D's creativity) and their own unique abilities. Sadly they are not mentioned in the same breath as G&G, M&D and the Protopopovs.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    ITA. As a big B&S fan, I often wonder what might have been, had Elena not failed the drug test after the 2000 Europeans. They could have been 3 or 4 times world champions entering the 2002 Olympics and probably Anton's minor error would not have caused such a brouhaha. Our media trashed this beautiful, talented pair. I consider them a legend because they combined the best qualities of the past great Russian pairs (R&Z, speed, G&G's unison and light movement across the ice, M&D's creativity) and their own unique abilities. Sadly they are not mentioned in the same breath as G&G, M&D and the Protopopovs.
    They probably would've won the 2000 Worlds. Going into the 2001 Worlds, I'd argue that S/P still win because of how hard Canada had been politicking them. I do think if the skating had been the same at the Olympics though, you would've seen the same trashing and they'd still be hugely underrated today. The best you can hope for is that Marie-Reine Le Gougne stands up to Stapleford's barrage and that B/S remain sole gold medalists.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    ITA. As a big B&S fan, I often wonder what might have been, had Elena not failed the drug test after the 2000 Europeans. They could have been 3 or 4 times world champions entering the 2002 Olympics and probably Anton's minor error would not have caused such a brouhaha. Our media trashed this beautiful, talented pair. I consider them a legend because they combined the best qualities of the past great Russian pairs (R&Z, speed, G&G's unison and light movement across the ice, M&D's creativity) and their own unique abilities. Sadly they are not mentioned in the same breath as G&G, M&D and the Protopopovs.
    What is amazing is people who have seen them live often, like yourself, have even suggested their unision is slightly better than G&G's amazing unision, and their speed slightly more than Rodnina's amazing speed (while achieved with much quieter and gentler stroking and edges, although I admit there was something about the agressiveness, rawness, and attack of how Rodnina and Zaitsev skated I found exciting). That is amazing that they could be even better than the teams considered the best ever in each of their best singular qualities, combining it all, and having their own individualistic ones too. They were truly an amazing team who will never get their full due.

  10. #130
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    Elena and Anton are one of the most disrespected and mistreated great pairs of all time. Past great pairs were reverred and even allowed to win competitions with mistakes. Elena and Anton skating cleanly were not even allowed to win a competition over Baby Sale and Temper Pelletier, who are quite an average team, unless they had 3 falls or more worth of mistakes. What the skating World did to Elena and Anton in 2001 and 2002 is one of the all time crimes in skating history.

  11. #131
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    Legendary is subjective but my choices would probably be Torvill & Dean, Yu Na Kim, Mao Asada, Midori Ito, Janet Lynn, Sonja Henie, Madge Syers, Katarina Witt, Trixi Schuba, Klimova & Ponomarenko, Gordeeva & Grinkov, Evgeny Plushenko, Kurt Browning, Dick Button the 2 Brians due to the names of their rivalry and their pro careers, Scott Hamilton, Artur Dmitriev. Irina Rodnina, Gritshuk & Platov.

    Skaters who I am split on whether they make it or not would be Kwan, Slutskaya, Virtue & Moir, Hamill, Davis & White, Fleming, Stojko, Lambiel, Takahashi, Anissina & Peizerat. Those are more borderline.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Yu Na is a legend and Michelle is not? LOL
    What exactly makes Michelle so superior to Yu Na?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    What exactly makes Michelle so superior to Yu Na?
    She did not skate to James Bond themes and incorporate hand gestures from Charlie's Angels.

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    Do legendary skaters have to be the subject of legends? If so, what legends do they tell about each skater? (I've heard that Moskvina made up the story about Anton saving Elena from her abusive partner; and Michelle is the subject of legends, in that many think she won 2 OGMs -- solely because she is so famous, and many equate fame with the OGM)

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    She did not skate to James Bond themes and incorporate hand gestures from Charlie's Angels.
    That's silly.

    Kim pulled off a truly fascinating program to James Bond themes. I think it was the epitome of a camp program themed to popular culture. It testifies to her versatility and range.

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    What exactly makes Michelle so superior to Yu Na?
    Five world titles & two Olympic medals vs. Two world titles & one Olympic medal (it's a Gold, however, and valued above the others)
    9 times US national champion (very different from Korean national champ same number of times, if she makes it that many times- no offense)
    Longevity

  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Do legendary skaters have to be the subject of legends? If so, what legends do they tell about each skater? (I've heard that Moskvina made up the story about Anton saving Elena from her abusive partner; and Michelle is the subject of legends, in that many think she won 2 OGMs -- solely because she is so famous, and many equate fame with the OGM)
    How would she make up a story like that? There were many other skaters that SAW the abuse. There is video footage of Elena in the hospital in Riga after her accident, while skating with Shliakov. Anton did go to Riga to visit Elena in the hospital and he did accompany her to Saint Petersburg, where she slowly recovered. I am sure the support she received from Anton and Tamara helped her a lot in her recovery.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    What exactly makes Michelle so superior to Yu Na?
    Nothing.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Do legendary skaters have to be the subject of legends?
    Either that or look good in Blackglama.

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    I find it interesting that many of the people who don't wish to regard Kwan as a "legendary" skater, won't acknowledge that many of their "favorites" have said that she was the person who most inspired them!

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