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  1. #61
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    Goebel is not legendary in anyway, shape, or form. Even in the U.S he is barely known today and would make a good trivia question. He is barely more known than that Chinese guy Guo who was the first to 2 quads in one program, the same way Tim was the first to do 3.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I'd take Yagudin off and leave Kwan off. I think Kwan is/will be legendary for US skating fans, but my impression has been fans in other parts of the world were much less wowed by her, and the list creator specified legendary world wide.

    I'd also make it Rodnina & Zietsev, since I found her first partner totally un-memorable. I would, in fact, leave off pretty much everyone that folks have suggested adding so far except for Janet Lynn and Dorothy Hamill. The only other pair I think have a case for adding would be Mishkutenok/Dmitriev partly because they defined a whole new style of pairs.

    I think a case can also be made for Scott Hamilton, as he won pretty much everything he entered for 4 seasons, brought a new kind of interpretive ability to ice skating, and really developed pro style skating.

    I think Kristi Y and Kurt Browning will also be remembered for decades in the US, I don't know if their legend will hold up world wide.

    For ice dance, Torvill & Dean are legendary, Klimova/Ponomarenko are a sentimental add for me, having spent 8 years rooting for them, but IMO no other dance team comes close to those two.

    I take legendary as meaning a skater people will still talk about in 30 or 50 years, the way fans today are still aware of Button and Henie and Curry. I think it is way too early to know which skaters of the past decade will hold up as legendary.

    Do we need to add Gillis Grafstrom, who defined figure skating in the early part of the 20th century, when it really was about skating figures? I guess, in her own way, Trixi Schuba is pretty legendary too.
    True, Schuba will be remembered Worldwide (dont know if legendary is the right word) many a long time to come.

    Grafstrom would be a good addition to the list.

    Is Dorothy Hamill really that big a star outside North America? I dont get the impression she made the impact outside of this part of the World as Lynn, Fleming, or even Seyfert did.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Well, at the very least, Cecelia Colledge was the first to perform the camel spin in competition, and, either way, this comment would be sexist because this point of contention detracts from the contributions of women, in general, by giving credit to neither woman.
    I was unsure at the time of the post as to whether Colledge was the first to perform it in competition or not. Now that it's established that she was, I will give her credit! (What did Grafstrom's variation look like and how did it differ from what we know today as the camel spin? Did he do it in competition? Depending on how similar it was, perhaps he should get the credit for first doing it). I wouldn't want to take away credit from someone else if someone else had done it in competition.

    In general, I'm also interested in who has done what skills have been done, and who was the first to do them, even in practice. I'm so glad David Jenkins' triple axel in *1957* was caught on tape, because it's truly amazing and mind-boggling, and he deserves some serious credit for that too, though Vern Taylor remains the official first in international competition, more than 20 years later. I've also seen video, for example, of Chris Mabee doing a very good quad loop attempt, something he never tried in competition and that has still never been performed cleanly in competition I don't think. Also of Sasha Cohen's quad sal attempt. It's cool to see obscure practice videos with the advent of YouTube. I'm fascinated by what people might have been doing in practice back in the day before Youtube and if any footage exists. That's not to take away from the ones who first do elements cleanly in international competition, since that's a feat worthy of recognition in itself. (But not necessarily SO MUCH more recognition than proven attempts from minor competitions or even practice. It's a shame that the Zhangs' absolutely beautiful throw quad sal from a Chinese competition has never been and probably never will be recognized by the ISU, especially after the precedent they've set now by "homologating" Brandon Mroz's 4Lutz from the Colorado Springs Invitational. Though it's a somewhat moot point because he also performed it creditably in international competition shortly afterward).

    That was a cool spin from Cecilia in the video, but technically at least today it wouldn't be considered a flying camel since she was already spinning on the other foot before jumping to the other foot in the camel position.

  4. #64
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    Chazz Michael Michaels and Jimmy MacElroy

    Oh... and Ekaterina Rubleva

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    I was unsure at the time of the post as to whether Colledge was the first to perform it in competition or not. Now that it's established that she was, I will give her credit! (What did Grafstrom's variation look like and how did it differ from what we know today as the camel spin? Did he do it in competition? Depending on how similar it was, perhaps he should get the credit for first doing it) . . .

    That was a cool spin from Cecilia in the video, but technically at least today it wouldn't be considered a flying camel since she was already spinning on the other foot before jumping to the other foot in the camel position.
    It is probably in a similar way that Grafstrom's variation was not a true "camel spin", so to speak, and probably was not done in competition. Remember, at this time, there were no "classic" positions . . .

    . . . and the most important thing done in competition was drawings in the ice, not body positions.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-28-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  6. #66

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    Anyone who doesn't put Kwan on their list is either mad because she beat their favs or just doesn't like her skating. Liking her or not, her accomplishments are legendary even without that Olympic gold medal. 9 World medals, 5 World titles, 2 Olympic medals, 9 U.S. National titles during a time when the US produced 2 Olympic champions not named Kwan. Not to mention she never did or said anything to get herself into the least bit of trouble and continues to be extremely respected, almost a decade after her last competition.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Championships are awarded by judges, who score by the rulebook and don't need to be wowed. My point was that she was not as popular nor held in such high regard by fans in other parts of the world. I think legendary is defined more broadly than titles. Kwan was an excellent textbook skater, remarkable for her jumping consistency, but she didn't really bring anything new to skating nor change the sport in any way.
    She was Yu Na Kim's idol when Yu Na was growing up. Also, Akiko Suzuki's. They count as fans, don't they? She is the gold standard when it comes to artistry and consistency. Who else has a body of work like hers, with numerous back to back clean programs and numerous skates that always end up on "best" or "favorite" lists. Skating was never more popular than when she was competing. And I don't think there is any basis for saying she wasn't held in high regard by the rest of the world. Tarasova said she skated like "a goddess." The British Eurosport commentators loved her. She was the ultimate muse to her choreographer, Lori Nichol, a Canadian. Sandra Bezic's commentary at Michelle's performances at the 1998 Pro Am's is epic: "For Michelle...it's the passion to skate." It is, of course, your right to leave her off your list, but you are in the minority.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Goebel is not legendary in anyway, shape, or form. Even in the U.S he is barely known today and would make a good trivia question. He is barely more known than that Chinese guy Guo who was the first to 2 quads in one program, the same way Tim was the first to do 3.
    That's a bit harsh (comparing him with Guo). I agree that Tim is not legendary, but he was the first US man to land a quad in a competition, and one of the few to land 3 quads in a program. He was a world silver medalist and an Olympic bronze medalist. That's nothing to sneer at. Certainly Guo's accomplishments were nowhere close to Tim's.
    Last edited by Vash01; 10-28-2013 at 04:49 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    Unlike others I would keep Yagudin on. I actually have more doubts about Plushenko than I do Yagudin. I am not sure if Plushenko is a big deal outside of Europe. Yagudin Americanilized himself so is still very famous and loved over here, moreso than Plushenko who is mostly vilified in this part of the World these days. Yagudin has also toured and built up more of a folllowing in Asia than Plushenko has.
    Sorry, guys, You might be bored with my Plushenko mania, but when I read some inaccurate things, and those show some lack of knowledge I have to write. The reality is very different, Judy...

    In Asia, especially in Japan Plushy has a huuuuuge fan base since 1999. He is the most popular foreign skater in Japan. In 2010 he has 30 shows in that summer after he will order the container, because Plu wanted to carry every gifts to Russia, the gifts already more than 500 kg( cca 1100 pounds).
    Look at this, front of the hotel on the street http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsEpvr0_eV4
    and in airport http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beDs0yAWrPk
    aftwer the show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOL6hpTlqvQ He is a rock star in Japan. Or he is the blond Russian prince, they call him sonny boy...
    this is so cute..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEYtHcBrkEo and many videos were deleted, because the Japanese are so shy. But we can see those videos in 2010.
    The japanese were the most who signed the peticion for the ISU, they wanted to revision of the final result after Vancouver.

    And in China. He has a big fan camp in that country, even in Taiwan too. In airport of Taipei http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHWmtStfdg He was the main star in AOI. This cute girl simply cried because she can see Plush live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uqstQ5r2u8listen to the other girls

    In Korea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03X26rLhI0g, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81KLwZwFfgs very funny, Plushy is really patient

    and so on....

    I'm always surprised, you really don't know how big star he is outside of N-AM. But if anybody read the Plushy's fan thread, has some idea about it.
    Last edited by lala; 10-28-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    ...among skating fans worldwide, whatever that means (to you)???

    Personally I'd say: Sonja Henie, Dick Button, The Protopov's, Irina Rodnina & her partners, Toller Cranston, John Curry, Torvill & Dean, Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, Gordeeva & Grinkov, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeny Plushenko, Shen & Zhao, Yuna Kim.

    ???
    I would add Kwan(default!) and Chan.
    He was incredible at this SC. The master of skating skills. He showed the reason why PCS = patrick chan scores.
    Last edited by t.mann; 10-28-2013 at 08:35 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by her grace View Post
    Tonya Harding
    I agree, actually. She has left a lasting impression on the sport and her name is known worldwide. Even aside from all the controversy, her triple axel was spectacular. And her music choices were truly the stuff of legends...

    Though his name isn't as widely known as most on the list, I'll add Don Jackson. He landed the first triple lutz in international competition, where he won Worlds, won bronze at the O's, and has his own popular brand of figure skates.

    And in his 70s he's still skating.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    She was Yu Na Kim's idol when Yu Na was growing up. Also, Akiko Suzuki's. They count as fans, don't they? She is the gold standard when it comes to artistry and consistency. Who else has a body of work like hers, with numerous back to back clean programs and numerous skates that always end up on "best" or "favorite" lists. Skating was never more popular than when she was competing. And I don't think there is any basis for saying she wasn't held in high regard by the rest of the world. Tarasova said she skated like "a goddess." The British Eurosport commentators loved her. She was the ultimate muse to her choreographer, Lori Nichol, a Canadian. Sandra Bezic's commentary at Michelle's performances at the 1998 Pro Am's is epic: "For Michelle...it's the passion to skate." It is, of course, your right to leave her off your list, but you are in the minority.
    Well said..Add Kostner, Korpi, Joubert, Lambiel, Gwendal

  13. #73
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    Is there any reliable definition of "legend"? It's a big word. Does it mean legendary in a common sense, like having achieved something for the sport that was/is absolutely unique?

    Toller Cranston's "Ice Cream" contains imo who could be considered legendary.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Pretty though, wasn't she?
    And even if she weren't, her fluorescent pink pantsuit should be truly legendary.

    One more addition: Sonia Radeva

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I would add Janet Lynn to that list. She spoke of returning to Japan in the 90s and still being famous there, and Japan wasnt even a huge skating country at the time.

    Unlike others I would keep Yagudin on. I actually have more doubts about Plushenko than I do Yagudin. I am not sure if Plushenko is a big deal outside of Europe. Yagudin Americanilized himself so is still very famous and loved over here, moreso than Plushenko who is mostly vilified in this part of the World these days. Yagudin has also toured and built up more of a folllowing in Asia than Plushenko has.
    Plushenko is also very popular in Asia, but you know what? I've noticed that a lot of young fans of FS don't know who Yagudin was and they discovered Plushenko just recently because he came back for the Vancouver Olympics. So I don't know which skaters are legendary, probably those who are very famous a long long time after their retirement/death like Salcow, Sonja Henje, Irina Rodnina, etc. I wouldn't add contemporary skaters to that list yet.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Well said..Add Kostner, Korpi, Joubert, Lambiel, Gwendal
    I remember Fumie Suguri also listed Michelle as her idol. I believe Michelle was quite popular in China for a while too. Her Chinese heritage probably helped but I'm sure her skating also had a lot to do with it.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Plushenko is also very popular in Asia, but you know what? I've noticed that a lot of young fans of FS don't know who Yagudin was and they discovered Plushenko just recently because he came back for the Vancouver Olympics. So I don't know which skaters are legendary, probably those who are very famous a long long time after their retirement/death like Salcow, Sonja Henje, Irina Rodnina, etc. I wouldn't add contemporary skaters to that list yet.
    Maybe. The number of fan cams of Plushenko on Youtube from Asian (mainly Japanese female) fans may mean that those fans are more attached to him since he competed in the last two Olympics.

    I think both are legends. Some might find Plushenko more majestic and charismatic (hence the "Czar"), but I think Yagudin left more memorable programs. I believe Yagudin's programs will draw more viewers in the long run, compared to Plushenko's. I hope Japanese Plushy fans would not erase Yagudin program videos with high number hits on Youtube!

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    Heinie, Button, Kwan, Torvill & Dean, Curry. I wouldn't (necessarily) put everyone on the list as an all-time great skater, but they are synonymous with figure skating and are known across a wide spectrum, even if the older ones don't live in the public consciousness as they did at one time. Gordeeva and Grinkov are legendary in the sport but a lot of people don't know who they are outside the sport. Most have heard of Kwan, T&D. Heinie, Button, and I think a surprising number know Curry.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Well said..Add Kostner, Korpi, Joubert, Lambiel, Gwendal
    Korpi legendary? Maybe her beauty is legendary but not her skating. Joubert had a good run too but he's not an all time great.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Plushenko is also very popular in Asia, but you know what? I've noticed that a lot of young fans of FS don't know who Yagudin was and they discovered Plushenko just recently because he came back for the Vancouver Olympics.
    No you are wrong. He has a lots of fans since 1999 for example in 2000 or in 2001 a japanese fan group travelled in St. Petersburg, they wanted to meet with Plushy, and they spent an entire day with him in that beautiful city.
    Look at this video. Plushy was only 16, at NHK Trophy, he was 11 minutes on the ice, the crowd didn't want to he finish his skating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8hjyJ1dClI ( at the and of the video Plu with the little Miki.) And one year later he became a young man, the women went crazy for him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGZXEs4dIE Would like to see more? I know many Japanese women begin to learn Russian because of him. You believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

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