Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 37 of 37

Thread: "The quad"

  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I don't know about that - wasn't it at worlds where he hit the boards in both the short and the long? It made me nervous watching him set up for the jump.
    Sports always make me nervous. I worry for my team, I worry for my skaters. To me, being nervous about whether they are actually going to do the things they intend is what makes it a sport; I also worry about whether they'll do it safely (though honestly, football scares me more than skaters close to the boards; though some pairs lifts beat out football). But seeing him skim the boards like that- it is pretty impressive.

    I guess worry is what makes it sport for me: I never worry that the ballerina won't complete her 32 fouettes, even though it is a pretty athletic feat.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    in the boonies
    Posts
    3,114
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    No it doesn't upset me.Because it's referring to the number of rotations. To me a clean quad jump is the equivalent of a homerun or a touchdown.A clean 3A being a close second to that.But then again,I think a champion without a clean 3A is a bit of a joke.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    3,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11778
    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    ^^ THis.

    The focus on multi-quadding at the expense of a well rounded skating PERFORMANCE has really soured me on watching men's skating.
    I have to agree here, it seems all the men are concentrating on now is the quad instead of trying to put together performances that are diverse and have quality besides the jumps. There is more to figure skating than jumping, and the quad-obsessed are missing the rest of the beauty in the performances.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  4. #24
    YEAH!
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Worshipping Grebenkina...
    Posts
    13,807
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11008
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    I have to agree here, it seems all the men are concentrating on now is the quad instead of trying to put together performances that are diverse and have quality besides the jumps. There is more to figure skating than jumping, and the quad-obsessed are missing the rest of the beauty in the performances.
    I disagree that the men are not trying to put together good performances. At Skate America, Machida had the quad and the best expressed program, IMO. That should be the ideal in men's skating.

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I disagree that the men are not trying to put together good performances. At Skate America, Machida had the quad and the best expressed program, IMO. That should be the ideal in men's skating.
    I agree- I think the men are still trying to perform, and many succeeding. In fact, I think Aaron trying to perform is what is messing up his jumps, not the number of them in the program. Rippon added the quad lutz, and while it wasn't perfect, and I don't think his performance has suffered due to its addition.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrushka View Post
    No it doesn't upset me.Because it's referring to the number of rotations. To me a clean quad jump is the equivalent of a homerun or a touchdown.A clean 3A being a close second to that.But then again,I think a champion without a clean 3A is a bit of a joke.
    But you are distinguishing a 3A from all the other triples, why do that if the rotations are all the same (though an axel is 3.5, so slightly different). Why say "the quad" if no one says "he's going for the triple!"
    Because the different jumps are different things.

    (And yeah, the triple-triple does get this too. A triple lutz-triple toe is so different from a triple toe-triple toe.)

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,195
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But you are distinguishing a 3A from all the other triples, why do that if the rotations are all the same (though an axel is 3.5, so slightly different). Why say "the quad" if no one says "he's going for the triple!"
    Because the different jumps are different things.

    (And yeah, the triple-triple does get this too. A triple lutz-triple toe is so different from a triple toe-triple toe.)
    As others have pointed out, I think it's just a throw back to when skaters were attempting just one or two quads and they were usually the toe-loop.

    I wonder if the same happened when triples started to appear?

    In any event, whether the commentator says a quad lutz or a quad toe, unless you know enough about skating already to know the different names and their relative difficulty, calling them their proper names is not going to educate the person listening anyway. My partner can probably recognise the names of the different jumps from hearing me talk about them, but he wouldn't know which is more diffiuclt than the other even though i know i've explained it to him a few times in the past.

  8. #28
    YEAH!
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Worshipping Grebenkina...
    Posts
    13,807
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11008
    To be fair, the commentators also do this with the ladies - "she's going for a triple-triple!" They rarely distinguish between 3t-3t and 3z-3l for example.

    ETA: Oh, I see that was mentioned. I liked the way they described Lipinski's 3loop combo in Nagano. I was a new skating fan and didn't know what jump was what. They said this combination took off on one foot, landed on the same foot, and then without assistance from the other foot she had to launch herself into another triple. Despite not knowing what a triple loop was, I immediately understood how difficult and impressive that was. They could definitely do a better job distinguishing the jumps.

  9. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    My partner can probably recognise the names of the different jumps from hearing me talk about them, but he wouldn't know which is more diffiuclt than the other even though i know i've explained it to him a few times in the past.
    My husband knows that lutz and axel are hardest and toe loop and salcow are easiest. I don't think he'd be able to recognize any jump except axel (forward take off) and loop (jump and land on one leg).

    But you certainly don't learn them if the commentators never tell you. I've started to be able to better tell the difference from a flip and a lutz, because I've learned the entrances skaters take into them (if they do a telegraphed lutz, it's obvious)- but unless the commentators pointed out which was done, I could never see the edge difference.

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,195
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    My husband knows that lutz and axel are hardest and toe loop and salcow are easiest. I don't think he'd be able to recognize any jump except axel (forward take off) and loop (jump and land on one leg).

    But you certainly don't learn them if the commentators never tell you. I've started to be able to better tell the difference from a flip and a lutz, because I've learned the entrances skaters take into them (if they do a telegraphed lutz, it's obvious)- but unless the commentators pointed out which was done, I could never see the edge difference.
    Also bear in mind that in pairs, they've more or less turned them into the same jump as throw flip and lutz have the same base value and for Zayak purposes you can't do a flip and and lutz - they're considered the same.

    Also another bug bear of mine is that all the twist lifts are marked as Lutz twist lifts on the protocols even though some skaters clearly do a flip entrance, and no-one ever seems to get edge calls on the throws or twists.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Also bear in mind that in pairs, they've more or less turned them into the same jump as throw flip and lutz have the same base value and for Zayak purposes you can't do a flip and and lutz - they're considered the same.
    Wasn't there talk a few years ago of them doing that for singles too?

  12. #32

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,195
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Wasn't there talk a few years ago of them doing that for singles too?
    I don't think it was an official consideration but i heard it on here and other boards using the justification of toe-walley and toe-loop.

  13. #33

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,093
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1664
    I love reading this thread about the quad. And I agree with those that said there are men out there that have both the quad and presentation, in fact there are many, not just a few like in Zhenya's day wherein only he & Yagudin had both. Nowadays there are many that have both (e.g. Javiar Fernandez, Hanyu, Machida, Daisuke Takahashi, Patrick Chan, Kevin Reynolds, and I'll even add Max Aaron because imho he does have both).

    ps: in order to make my list one has to have at least *1* consistent quad in their arsenal, others that land it only a few times don't count as having a consistent one (e.g. Abbott, Rippon, Messing, et al). jmho.

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    On Artur Gachinski's BANDWAGON (thanx l'etoile!)
    Posts
    169
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Sports always make me nervous. I worry for my team, I worry for my skaters. To me, being nervous about whether they are actually going to do the things they intend is what makes it a sport; I also worry about whether they'll do it safely (though honestly, football scares me more than skaters close to the boards; though some pairs lifts beat out football). But seeing him skim the boards like that- it is pretty impressive.

    I guess worry is what makes it sport for me: I never worry that the ballerina won't complete her 32 fouettes, even though it is a pretty athletic feat.
    Me, too, Skittl1...I get so nervous before the comps, when I watch my favourites at practice, etc. But I STILL come back for more! My Favourite is Gachinski...I think by the end of this season, my nerves will be so fried that I'll need some serious Xanax therapy...

    But isn't it delicious when it turns out right!!

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    in the boonies
    Posts
    3,114
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But you are distinguishing a 3A from all the other triples, why do that if the rotations are all the same (though an axel is 3.5, so slightly different). Why say "the quad" if no one says "he's going for the triple!"
    Because the different jumps are different things.

    (And yeah, the triple-triple does get this too. A triple lutz-triple toe is so different from a triple toe-triple toe.)
    Because a 3A is more difficult than the other triples,due to the entrance,number of revolutions(3.5 as you mentioned) and the exit. To land a quad of any kind of jump is impressive on it's own.In the old days,putting significance on the type of quad,if the skater is a consistent jumper,that is one thing.But now days,so few have clean,consistent quads,it's just impressive to see one of them land one. I think you're being a little OCD about it

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,015
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrushka View Post
    Because a 3A is more difficult than the other triples
    But a loop is harder than some other triples, and a lutz is harder than the other triples. It makes no sense to pretend like all the jumps are the same if they have the same number of rotations. If they did, they'd be worth the same value.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    in the boonies
    Posts
    3,114
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But a loop is harder than some other triples, and a lutz is harder than the other triples. It makes no sense to pretend like all the jumps are the same if they have the same number of rotations. If they did, they'd be worth the same value.
    I do understand what you are saying,I am a trial judge, I have to pick apart jumps and well,entire programs and test skates,right down to the edges.Which btw is really hard to see if you are one end of the ice and they are on the complete opposite end.What I'm saying is,as far as announcers and such.It's not really that big of a deal.It only really matters to die hard skating fans,skaters and the people who have to judge their skating. And you're right,they don't have all the same value,in actuality,certain elements are broken up into the different components of the element not just the entire thing.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •