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  1. #41
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    Yes, I too recall something like that, RFOS. Actually Kevin Reynolds became the first man or woman to land 2 quads in the SP at 2010 Skate Canada. So he too has placed his name in the history books along with so many others, including Evgeni Plushenko's technical feats of brilliance.

    Regards Brandon Mroz, I honestly don't know?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    Brandon Mroz has attempted a quad loop at least domestically in the U.S. (can't remember off hand if he tried it internationally)
    No, he hasn't attempted 4Lo internationally. Mroz attempted 4Lo at the Liberty summer comp. in July 2012 and fell in the SP (4Lo<, 8.4 BV -3 GOE) and he fell out of a rotated 4Lo in the FS (12.0 BV -2 GOE).

    i've compiled some QUAD statistics for the U.S. men - here are the top-scoring quads and/or quad combos so far this international season (5 different men have been credited with landing or standing up on rotated quads):

    13.93 Aaron (USIC SP) 4S+3T 14.6 BV -0.67
    12.98 Aaron (SA FS) 4S+2T in 2nd half 12.98 BV
    11.66 Aaron (NHK SP) 4S+2T 11.8 BV -0.14
    10.60 Hochstein (USIC SP) 4T+2T 11.6 BV -1
    10.16 Abbott (SC SP) 4T 10.3 BV -0.14
    9.57 Aaron (USIC FS) 4S+1T 10.9 BV -1.33
    9.55 Aaron (USIC FS) 4S in 2nd half 11.55 BV -2
    9.30 Aaron (NHK FS) 4T 10.3 BV -1
    8.97 Farris (USIC SP) 4T 10.3 BV -1.33
    8.73 Rippon (NHK SP) 4T 10.3 BV -1.57
    8.50 Aaron (SA FS & NHK FS) 10.3 BV -2
    8.44 Rippon (NHK FS) 4T 10.3 BV -1.86

    Note: Rippon's 4Lz< hand down (SA SP) scored 6.93 (9.5 BV -2.57).

    Not surprisingly, Aaron has by far the most quad attempts, with 4S combo planned in his SP and 3 quads in his FS, so his success rate (defined by me as receiving a majority of BV points/not falling or popping) in 3 internationals so far has been ~67% (8 for 12).

    3 others who fell on a rotated quad:
    7.55 Dornbush (Finlandia FS) 4S in 2nd half 11.55 BV -3 + fall -1
    6.30 Carriere (USIC FS) 4T 10.3 BV -3 + fall -1
    6.30 Razzano (Finlandia SP) 4T 10.3 BV -3 + fall -1

    Domestically, Hochstein, Keegan Messing, and Dornbush landed quads in one of the 3 major club competitions this past summer, while Razzano, Mroz, and Philip Warren fell on their rotated 4T attempts.

    4T+3T (14.4 BV + 1.75 = 16.15) was landed by both Hochstein (Skate Detroit SP) and Messing (Glacier Falls FS). Dornbush scored 9.50 (10.5 BV -1) in landing 4S in his Glacier Falls SP.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-10-2013 at 05:29 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    As of ISU Communication 1790 (dated April 26, 2013), quad lutz is worth 13.6 base value and quad axel is worth 15.0.

    Take off 3 points for -3 GOE, plus fall deduction if applicable, and that's still a lot of points if the jump is rotated.
    So technically, there is such a thing!!! Has anyone attempted it and got close to landing one?
    Touching the void.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primorskaya View Post
    So technically, there is such a thing!!! Has anyone attempted it and got close to landing one?
    Ilia Kulik landed it on the floor once, but never tried it on the ice. I believe the quad Axel only exists as a value to make things kind of even. It's always amused me that next to "Axel" on the data entry screen you can hit 4. Wonder how much the computers would freak?

  5. #45
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    Quad Quandary -

    I think Max's quandary is caused by putting a 4toe, 4sal (x2), a focus on PCS, and the fact that he is now reigning National Champ, carrying all that extra added stress and causing a clean skate to be elusive. But I have faith he'll eventually get there.

    Adam's quandary isn't so much a quandary, but an improvement in technique! It looks like he's going for a 4toe. But, BTW, has anyone noticed how good his 3x looks???

    Ricky's quandary is what I've stated in another thread - Trying for a 4toe and 4sal when he hadn't locked down the 4toe yet. Why the rush? Judges like him enough to score him well should he go clean with a 4toe. He's young enough to go for Pyeongchang '18.

    Josh is getting there. No rush on his part, either.

    Ross is really scraping the bottom so far this season. Definitely a quandary

    Jeremy is Jeremy - box of chocolates. You never know what you will get.

  6. #46
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    I want to see clean programs and for most men that means lose the quad attempt. Most quad falls have hard landings and suck the energy out of the skater and the performance.

  7. #47

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    Adam & Jeremy to Sochi, please. We don't need "Mr Muscles" at the Olympics.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  8. #48

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    But the US judges love their Quadders!

  9. #49
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    Copied over from Max Aaron's fan thread in the Trash Can:
    Mastering the quad
    One jump, four rotations, land it on a quarter inch blade of steel: "The Quad" is the gold standard in men's figure skating. Top Americans break down the jump.
    http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/mastering-quad (3:09 in length)
    Aaron, Miner and Lysacek are interviewed for this feature.

    U.S. men's Quad count at Rostelecom Cup: Dornbush popped his planned 4S into a double in his SP (which led to mistakes in his remaining 2 jump passes) and was credited with rotating 4S (fall) in his FS, and he went on to complete the majority of his remaining triples, including both 3A.
    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Ricky's quandary is what I've stated in another thread - Trying for a 4toe and 4sal when he hadn't locked down the 4toe yet. Why the rush? Judges like him enough to score him well should he go clean with a 4toe.
    Dornbush went with just one quad attempt in his SP and FS in Moscow, so at least that led to his best FS of the season so far.

    ETA:
    Quads attempted/landed at Sectionals:
    12.60 Hochstein (Easterns FS) 4T+2T 11.6 +1
    11.15 Messing (Pacifics FS) 4T+3T(fall -1) 14.40 BV -2.25
    8.90 Hochstein (Easterns SP) 4T 10.30 BV -1.4
    8.10 Mroz (Mids FS) 4T 10.30 BV -2.2
    4.80 Carriere (Easterns FS) 4T< 7.20 BV -2.4
    4.20 Carriere (Easterns SP) 4T< 7.20 BV -3
    4.20 Mroz (Mids SP) 4T< 7.20 BV -3
    4.20 Razzano (Pacs SP) 4T< 7.20 BV -3
    4.20 Messing (Pacs FS) 4T< 7.20 BV -3
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-27-2013 at 02:23 PM. Reason: to add Sectionals quad stats
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Quad Quandary -

    I think Max's quandary is caused by putting a 4toe, 4sal (x2), a focus on PCS, and the fact that he is now reigning National Champ, carrying all that extra added stress and causing a clean skate to be elusive. But I have faith he'll eventually get there.
    Both Max and his coach have faith, as evidenced by:

    1) Aaron's Skype interview with Icenetwork (Michael Weiss and Sarah Hughes) last Saturday - dardar1126 posted the link in his thread in the Trash Can (subscription is not required to view and it's not geoblocked either): http://web.icenetwork.com/video/v31238403

    2) From Tom Zakrajsek's public Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7653386&type=1
    As I sit here in Moscow's DME airport, I feel so privileged to have coached at four Grand Prix events this season for many reasons.

    The first being that to attend the competitions with such talented athletes as Max Aaron and Agnes Zawadzki is truly a blessing and a coach's dream.

    To witness Max train like a beast at home and take such huge athletic and artistic risks in his Grand Prix debut makes me proud. While I know he carried a lot of expectations on his shoulders and in many people's eyes he did not live up to the hype, he did in mine. Instead of resting on his laurels and falling into the trap many elite skaters do and just trying to "skate clean," he "failed upwards" (see the book, The Talent Code) and in the process showed all the young skaters around the world that it is ok to make mistakes and to never stop reaching until you are the very best. Carry on, Max!
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-26-2013 at 07:30 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #51
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    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...olympics-sochi

    Men's figure skating debates the importance of the quadruple jump
    Controversy over Olympic champion who didn't complete a 'quad' means that Sochi Games should be full of them

    Liz Clarke for the Washington Post
    Guardian Weekly, Tuesday 14 January 2014 09.01 EST

    Excerpt:

    When American Evan Lysacek won figure-skating gold at the 2010 Vancouver Games, some hailed it as a victory for artistry over acrobatics. Others shrieked in protest, arguing that crowning an Olympic champion who hadn't performed the sport's most difficult element – the quadruple jump – over a skater who had, Russia's Yevgeny Plushenko, set figure skating's evolution back decades. In an essay objecting to the judging, former Canadian champion Elvis Stojko proclaimed it The Night They Killed Figure Skating.

    Sadly, the highly anticipated reprise between Vancouver's gold and silver medalists that was to unfold at the 2014 Sochi Games – which open on 7 February – won't come to pass. Lysacek, 28, announced in December that injury had forced him to abandon defence of his Olympic title, while Plushenko, 31, appears to have been edged out by a younger rival in his quest for Russia's lone men's Olympic berth.

    But the debate over the quad endures. And it's expected to define the men's competition in Sochi, where no credible medal contender dare step on the ice without a quad in his repertoire.

  12. #52

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    If you want to go by weirs comments Lysacek was perfect but worthless. There was no value in that quadless disgrace that virtually eliminated 3 Olympics worth of technical progress it was just a worthless performance from a different era that had no place getting the most points in 2010. So glad the isu changed rules and eliminated step sequences and raised values of quads and eliminated the extreme and wretched over punishment of failure.

  13. #53
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    I really like the diversity of the mens field. We've got artists and athletes, Jason Brown and Max Aaron are going to be a nice 1-2 punch the next 4 years. I'm liking US mens skating as much as I have - as much as I ever have in my life.

    I seriously can't get enough of Jason Brown, he just gets everything, even things I don't even think to look for in a skater he just has that too. I really am in shock looking at my facebook feed - people like him a lot. People I didn't even know liked figure skating and would shy away from talking to about it. Between Jason and the ladies team selection, we haven't had a Nationals quite this popular in awhile.

  14. #54

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    Unf, can you imagine if Jason and Max go to Worlds and get three spots back? Then next year's Worlds team could be Josh, Jason and Max. On a scale you have Jason at one end for Artistry and Max at the other for Jumps and then Josh sits somewhere in between, which would just be a super team.

    I shouldn't ingest sugar and watch Jason and Josh on endless loop. I think they fried my brain.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    I really like the diversity of the mens field. We've got artists and athletes, Jason Brown and Max Aaron are going to be a nice 1-2 punch the next 4 years. I'm liking US mens skating as much as I have - as much as I ever have in my life.
    ...and I would add Josh Farris to that mix as well.

  16. #56

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    Just to put a wrench in your predictions for next year's team, just remember that Nathan Chen will be eligible for the World Championships.
    Beefcake's fancy, saccharine, artsy, drag bingo cliche effusing, bipolar, OTT fashionista manchild

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    Just to put a wrench in your predictions for next year's team, just remember that Nathan Chen will be eligible for the World Championships.
    They better get 3 spots back! We're gonna need them with all the talent that will be at nationals!

  18. #58
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    From the Guardian article:
    A self-described "diehard Plushenko fan", dazzled by the Russian's star power and pizazz, Weir says now that he feels the judges got it right in awarding gold to Lysacek. "On the day of the free programme, the better skater won," Weir said. "Evan performed incredibly well. He was so precise, down to the last detail. Evan was just perfect that day."
    Interesting turnaround! I remember a 2010 interview in which Johnny said "Of course Plushenko should have won."

  19. #59

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    Pffft. Weir's just jumping on bandwagons. If Max had made it he's still be saying Plushenko should have won because quad; but because Jason made it he's saying otherwise.

  20. #60

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    Now he's just reflective of the people who don't even know what quads are or don't think they matter or having a standard matters.

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