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  1. #1

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    U.S. menís figure skaters mired in quad quandary

    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/201...ing-quad-race/
    Down went Max Aaron. Down went Adam Rippon.

    Itís the hardest puzzle piece to snap into place in menís figure skating leading up to the Sochi Olympics: the quadruple jump. And after the seasonís first Grand Prix event, it continues to be an elusive element for the top U.S. men.
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Not as elusive as it used to be! Lol! There has been tremendous improvement and Aaron is doing well and can do them. Rollins quad lutz is a reach but not looking like it's impossible. Better to keep trying and fail sometimes because it's definitely not 2009 anymore where weir lysacek never tried them internationally. Lysacek was 0-1 and weir 0-0. Now most are working hard and trying and no longer have to think about zero or 1 or 2 points like lysacek weir.

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    I don't think Rippon is crying about messing up some of his quads, what with his Silver medal at Skate America and finishing higher than the reigning US National champ...
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Now most are working hard and trying and no longer have to think about zero or 1 or 2 points like lysacek weir.
    Who's Lysacek Weir? Did someone go into the lab and make a hybrid skater? (Kidding! )
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

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    And of course this article has to have Elvis saying how important quads are
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    I don't think Max's quads are inconsistent. It's just one of those days where it didn't work. I have always thought Max's quads are the most consistent among the American men. With quads now back in 'vogue', I am sure you will see the next generation of American men unleashing them in future.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. Ė Publilius Syrus

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    Nice to see that you are back in form, caseyedwards, providing the only comment (as usual) to the article with emphasis on horrible Evan Lysacek and his horrible 2010 win. It's so nice to know you are still tossing and turning about that competition...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

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    Well what's the reason quads are back? The article was saying it's the new system but why did 99% of men abandon quads in short programs from 2007 to 2010? Why were the changes so biased in one direction after the 2010 Olympics? The answers are obvious. The extreme embarrassment of the technical regression symbolized and crystalized by Lysaceks horrendous victory would lead to quads back in sP and lp because of the system changes attacking quadless point accumulating methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I don't think Rippon is crying about messing up some of his quads, what with his Silver medal at Skate America and finishing higher than the reigning US National champ...
    Maybe but missing quads won't cut it if he ever makes it back to Worlds or the Olympics.

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    Haven't read the article yet, but the comments I have. And I agree that Max Aaron is pretty darn consistent with them, he just made a couple of errors is all, no biggie, heck he even came back after the halfway mark to land a nice quad after missing his first two during the opening, now that's pretty impressive. Also, I read over in the K&C that he landed 3 of them during his exhibition skate.

    As for Adam Rippon, IIRC that's the first time he's actually landed his quad lutz during competition and it was a beauty (barely noticed the very very slight 2foot). Though I admit Brandon Mroz (the first man in history to ever land one in competition) makes it look like child's play. If Adam keeps this up he's bound to blow everybody away at Nationals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Maybe but missing quads won't cut it if he ever makes it back to Worlds or the Olympics.
    Because the way he skates at the first international of the season is the way he's going to skate forever...

    I think his season is off to a great start, myself. He did quite well for himself and he can build on this performance.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Who's Lysacek Weir? Did someone go into the lab and make a hybrid skater? (Kidding! )
    I always kind of thought that hybrid would produce a skater with a work ethic and a better balance of tech and artistry, actually.

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    Are they conveniently going to leave out that pretty much everyone except Machida and Gachinski also messed up/missed their quads? Because that's what happened in the FS. It wasn't just the Americans.

    Max will be fine. He's had to spend so much time addressing the haters' shrieks about his "lack of artistry" that it doesn't surprise me the quads are a little wonky. Adam's Lutz was a beauty. Much better than Mroz's but maybe I also think that because Adam has nicer all-round skating. Jason doesn't have one yet, obviously. Or at least not one that he's showing us.

    Next week at Skate Canada will be Joshua, Jeremy and Ross. Ross has a quad sal (but we haven't seen it this year yet, have we?). Jeremy maybe has a quad toe (when was the last time he actually landed it? Ever?). Joshua has quad sal and toe but hasn't displayed the sal in competition yet and hasn't landed the toe in competition since September last year.

    I think that this is a very exciting time in figure skating for the men. Quads everywhere, men pushing themselves and sport further. This is how it goes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Are they conveniently going to leave out that pretty much everyone except Machida and Gachinski also messed up/missed their quads? Because that's what happened in the FS. It wasn't just the Americans.

    Max will be fine. He's had to spend so much time addressing the haters' shrieks about his "lack of artistry" that it doesn't surprise me the quads are a little wonky. Adam's Lutz was a beauty. Much better than Mroz's but maybe I also think that because Adam has nicer all-round skating. Jason doesn't have one yet, obviously. Or at least not one that he's showing us.

    Next week at Skate Canada will be Joshua, Jeremy and Ross. Ross has a quad sal (but we haven't seen it this year yet, have we?). Jeremy maybe has a quad toe (when was the last time he actually landed it? Ever?). Joshua has quad sal and toe but hasn't displayed the sal in competition yet and hasn't landed the toe in competition since September last year.

    I think that this is a very exciting time in figure skating for the men. Quads everywhere, men pushing themselves and sport further. This is how it goes!
    Agree all around. I think Mura, Hanyu and Chan know a few things about quads too .
    Jason was the only skater that failed to include a quad at SA. I believe that all of the men at SC have them planned. So Elvis can get a good night's sleep tonight

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    Fiinally read this article about American men figure skaters and the quad, and I have to say the #1 thing I'm attracted to when it comes to Max Aaron is his confidence. Bar none. Even in real life I'm attracted to those that exude confidence; it's an aphrodisiac, always has been. I love his words at the very end of the article ~ "there's no backing down". And my all-time favorite quote from Aaron is go big or go home. Truer words were never spoken...

    He's a man of his word!

    ps: also love the link to Evgeni at the very end of the article. Now that man is the definition of confidence; you'll find a pic of him under it. jmho.

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    I don't think ANY of the men can take quads for granted except maybe Plushenko, and he doesn't compete much anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Max will be fine. He's had to spend so much time addressing the haters' shrieks about his "lack of artistry" that it doesn't surprise me the quads are a little wonky.
    The way I see it, Max has spent time addressing the "lack of artistry" because he wants to improve his second mark and the marks are given by the judges. Unless you think that the judges (national ones included) are Max Aaron haters.

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    NOT quad jumps -- just quadruple revolution jumps! The quad in and of itself is not a jump. It's either a quad toe, quad salchow, or the more difficult quad lutz, and quad loop, and I'm missing one ... quad toe-loop. Which ones have never been performed in competition?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    NOT quad jumps -- just quadruple revolution jumps! The quad in and of itself is not a jump. It's either a quad toe, quad salchow, or the more difficult quad lutz, and quad loop, and I'm missing one ... quad toe-loop. Which ones have never been performed in competition?
    "Toe" is short for toe loop. The other jumps that are performed as multi-revolution jumps and have values in the judging system are axel and flip.

    Only the quad toe loop, quad salchow, and quad lutz have been executed cleanly in international competition. Daisuke Takahashi attempted a quad flip once or twice. Brandon Mroz has attempted a quad loop at least domestically in the U.S. (can't remember off hand if he tried it internationally), and I believe a few skaters a number years ago tried it as well (Roman Serov I think?). I don't believe anyone has ever attempted a quad axel in competition (yikes, that would be hard!).

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    "Toe" is short for toe loop. The other jumps that are performed as multi-revolution jumps and have values in the judging system are axel and flip.

    Only the quad toe loop, quad salchow, and quad lutz have been executed cleanly in international competition. Daisuke Takahashi attempted a quad flip once or twice. Brandon Mroz has attempted a quad loop at least domestically in the U.S. (can't remember off hand if he tried it internationally), and I believe a few skaters a number years ago tried it as well (Roman Serov I think?). I don't believe anyone has ever attempted a quad axel in competition (yikes, that would be hard!).
    Kulik had a quad toe in his winning long program in yes, 1998 - that long ago and he was hardly the first.

    BTW, Kulik once commented that the quad axel was unlikely - it's four and a half revolutions. Would need very tight revolutions (btw, was impressed with that from Machida at SA - good form) and a lot more air time than we're used to seeing. Well, maybe some phenom will come along some day.
    Last edited by Willowway; 10-23-2013 at 12:26 AM.

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