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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I like both teams, I'm not an uber of either. But the V/M thread just makes me want to scream sometimes.
    That's pretty much how I feel. Not an uber of ice dance or either one of these teams over the other. I'm capable of enjoying and appreciating both of them. I definitely have preferences for specific programs over others, that have been skated by each. Unfortunately, from what I saw at Finlandia (V/M) and SA (D/W), I don't really care for the either the SD's and FD's of either team. Oh, I acknowledge both teams are beyond competent and will execute them well, but I can't help but feel a little empty--that in this Olympic season for choice of music and choreography: "Huh, This was the Best you Could Come Up With?" And given that I feel the same way about the Shib's SD and FD also, I am about to come to the conclusion that the nexus of the problem is that Zoueva is sliding and in need of a creative rejuvenation herself.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    That's pretty much how I feel. Not an uber of ice dance or either one of these teams over the other. I'm capable of enjoying and appreciating both of them. I definitely have preferences for specific programs over others, that have been skated by each. Unfortunately, from what I saw at Finlandia (V/M) and SA (D/W), I don't really care for the either the SD's and FD's of either team. Oh, I acknowledge both teams are beyond competent and will execute them well, but I can't help but feel a little empty--that in this Olympic season for choice of music and choreography: "Huh, This was the Best you Could Come Up With?" And given that I feel the same way about the Shib's SD and FD also, I am about to come to the conclusion that the nexus of the problem is that Zoueva is sliding and in need of a creative rejuvenation herself.
    Yes, but all of the above is just your personal opinion. I might even agree on Zoueva needing to get more creative, but as far as Shez goes, it's the music Meryl and Charlie have been dreaming of skating to for years. I for one am glad that they get to make this dream come true in an Olympic season.

    Do I wish they would have skated to more modern pieces Eleanor Rigby style throughout their career? I totally do. I was waiting for another ER for years and it never came and it does leave me with a little bit of bitterness. But on the other hand, I can just tell Shez is their music by the way they interpret it. I was not convinced at first, but in some cases it is the skating that makes you come around, not the music. I did not want them to skate to it, but they do and I'm loving it so much. It's definitely one of the best FDs they've had, if not the best one. I don't care if the music has already been used in skating. they feel it big time and I am sure as the season progresses we will see more and more of a soul put into it. In Sochi they will skate their hearts out, that I am sure of and simply cannot wait.

    Besides, creativity-wise I still think Tessa and Scott's FD is even less.

    And finally, P/B have been creative most of the time lately and look where it got them. Instead of being top contenders for the Sochi bronze, they are now named as the ones with the smallest chances of all the world's best teams.

  3. #143
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    The new programs are amazing. The things they can do are just out of this world. I get sweaty palms watching them do all the difficult stuff NOW so I think I'm going to have a heart attack during Olympics!

    The only thing I was trying to figure out were the costumes, like some of you here, I thought the colours didn't go too well. After looking around the web on Scheh ballets and most of the time the female lead was in variations of blue. Also, take a look at this pose. Just lovely...

    Thanks to everyone for the video links, appreciate it so much. We don't get any winter sport coverage here...

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    That's pretty much how I feel. Not an uber of ice dance or either one of these teams over the other. I'm capable of enjoying and appreciating both of them. I definitely have preferences for specific programs over others, that have been skated by each. Unfortunately, from what I saw at Finlandia (V/M) and SA (D/W), I don't really care for the either the SD's and FD's of either team. Oh, I acknowledge both teams are beyond competent and will execute them well, but I can't help but feel a little empty--that in this Olympic season for choice of music and choreography: "Huh, This was the Best you Could Come Up With?" And given that I feel the same way about the Shib's SD and FD also, I am about to come to the conclusion that the nexus of the problem is that Zoueva is sliding and in need of a creative rejuvenation herself.
    Totally agree with you. Even more about The Shibutani's. Maybe playing safe is the best option. I just see so much talent yet the choreography does not back it up sometimes.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Yes, but all of the above is just your personal opinion. I might even agree on Zoueva needing to get more creative, but as far as Shez goes, it's the music Meryl and Charlie have been dreaming of skating to for years. I for one am glad that they get to make this dream come true in an Olympic season.

    Do I wish they would have skated to more modern pieces Eleanor Rigby style throughout their career? I totally do. I was waiting for another ER for years and it never came and it does leave me with a little bit of bitterness. But on the other hand, I can just tell Shez is their music by the way they interpret it. I was not convinced at first, but in some cases it is the skating that makes you come around, not the music. I did not want them to skate to it, but they do and I'm loving it so much. It's definitely one of the best FDs they've had, if not the best one. I don't care if the music has already been used in skating. they feel it big time and I am sure as the season progresses we will see more and more of a soul put into it. In Sochi they will skate their hearts out, that I am sure of and simply cannot wait.

    Besides, creativity-wise I still think Tessa and Scott's FD is even less.

    And finally, P/B have been creative most of the time lately and look where it got them. Instead of being top contenders for the Sochi bronze, they are now named as the ones with the smallest chances of all the world's best teams.
    Are you inside my head ?!. I was so thinking about their ER free dance when I watched them at Skate America.
    I did not know that this seasons FD music was a dance they had always dreamed of skating to. (British Eurosport tell you NOTHING !).
    Also, I totally agree with you about P/B. I think their creative programes have come back to bite them in the bum. I LOVED their Rolling Stones free last season & had Meryl & Charlie or Tessa & Scott did that it would have been thought of as a classic.

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Sorry but I just gotta say something here ^ that's not always the case, nor is it the case that all V/M fans trash D/W. There's bad apples in both.
    At the moment situations on V&M thread is between comical and hysterical. Apparently - the Olympics are sold and seals to USFSA with Italy, France & Russia as the conspirators together with Zoueva.

    COnsidering how competent and strong Virtue&Moir are - such things are insulting to them.
    As of March 2013 - no longer scared of TAHbKA or Andrey aka Pushkin

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Yes, but all of the above is just your personal opinion. I might even agree on Zoueva needing to get more creative, but as far as Shez goes, it's the music Meryl and Charlie have been dreaming of skating to for years. I for one am glad that they get to make this dream come true in an Olympic season.

    Do I wish they would have skated to more modern pieces Eleanor Rigby style throughout their career? I totally do. I was waiting for another ER for years and it never came and it does leave me with a little bit of bitterness. But on the other hand, I can just tell Shez is their music by the way they interpret it. I was not convinced at first, but in some cases it is the skating that makes you come around, not the music. I did not want them to skate to it, but they do and I'm loving it so much. It's definitely one of the best FDs they've had, if not the best one. I don't care if the music has already been used in skating. they feel it big time and I am sure as the season progresses we will see more and more of a soul put into it. In Sochi they will skate their hearts out, that I am sure of and simply cannot wait.

    Besides, creativity-wise I still think Tessa and Scott's FD is even less.

    And finally, P/B have been creative most of the time lately and look where it got them. Instead of being top contenders for the Sochi bronze, they are now named as the ones with the smallest chances of all the world's best teams.
    I don't think P/B got in trouble for being modern. P/B got in trouble for being sloppy. In my opinion, of course, they just don't have the skill level to compete with today's teams. The only edge they have on these teams is seniority/experience. They're a much more mature team and they skate well together, but as soon as these newer teams gain speed, no pun intended, they just don't have it. I thought they were going to bow out when Tanith and Ben did to be honest.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    I don't think P/B got in trouble for being modern. P/B got in trouble for being sloppy. In my opinion, of course, they just don't have the skill level to compete with today's teams. The only edge they have on these teams is seniority/experience. They're a much more mature team and they skate well together, but as soon as these newer teams gain speed, no pun intended, they just don't have it. I thought they were going to bow out when Tanith and Ben did to be honest.
    I find them much more interesting than most couples. Why would they have gone after the 2010 season when they had a chance to move up. They have won two European titles. They have really improved since 2010.
    I have to say that I see something special in every Ice Dance couple (I think I'm getting old !).

  9. #149
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    Don't think this was linked to yet: http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commen...s-winning-pair

    I just love learning a little bit more about Charlie and Meryl from their moms, Jacqui and Cheryl. Makes me love D/W more...and of course, their supportive, loving, smart moms. It would be a sad day as a fan when D/W decide to retire as competitive skaters.

    Re their programs, I love both of them. I could see more room for improvement...meaning...super programs come Olympics. In the icenetwork article, Charlie mentioned about the glitch in the FD spin and I see that he missed catching Meryl's foot at the beginning of the spin. Watch Oleg's reaction...

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Since I am the one who compared them to A&P I can state that's not what I said.
    I am sorry but ALL the old ice dancers are far better skaters than any of the new generation will ever be. Blade controls and lines especially etc.
    Even Margaglio could show some of the actual ice dancers how to skate (and that pains me a lot since he used to skate on his flats !). It's not even comparable if you ask me since instead of quality we've been sold on quantity for the past 6 years. It's a trend, it'll change back at one point.
    And A&P are overall still better skaters than D&W or V&M.
    It kind of feels like comparing apples and oranges because ice dance when Marina and Gwendal skated was a whole different sport than it is now.
    But given how long it took for the "old" skaters to adjust to the new judging system/how difficult it was for them, I'm not sure I'd agree with the fact that they're far more better skaters. They're different skaters with different strength because they skated in a very different era and had a very different focus.

  11. #151

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    I loved D&W's FD (haven't seen the SD yet) at SA. This is only the start of the season. I hope it develops into a great program, I hope they skate great, and I hope they win the OGM in Sochi.

  12. #152
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    "He's pretty good about wearing whatever we tell him to wear now," Cheryl said. "He won't accept purple pants, that's one thing that's out. No purple pants, I know that. And he doesn't like brown."
    So would Charlie wear yellow pants? They are in this season...

  13. #153
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    I wasn't going to comment on this, because obviously I'm a D/W and some will write this off as just bias, but I feel the choreography of Scheherazade is very different from what they've done. It's more complex, there is more variation. When you look at POTO, Prince Igor, and even ND, you can see where the criticism on them being a fast powerful team, and that's all, might come from. In this piece you have light forthy parts, like in Giselle, you have smooth elegant parts, like in DF, you have power, you've seen in the dramatic pieces before this, and their edges and quality of skating has improved by leaps and bounds. They're practically floating in some places. The step sequences also look a lot more different.

    It's the Olympics, I expected them to come back to this genre, but they really stepped it up. I can see everything they've done since Vancouver adding up. It's the complete package and it takes you through a story. It even distracts from the formulaic required elements.

    The SD is the SD. It's beautifully skated, I like the song, but it's not a master piece. I think those will be few and far between. The SD is half compulsory dance and that has it's limitations. With that said I really enjoyed watching Chock/Bates and the Shibs. I think the Shibs have the best transition into the finnstep so far. It just starts without a change in the music or tons of preparation and I like how upbeat the music is the entire time for Chock/Bates. It will be a nice break from all the slow.

    I think you have to appreciate programs for what they are within context and I saw a lot of good programs out there...more so than train wrecks, so I'm going to enjoy watching this season in spite of the finnstep. We new about the finnstep a long time ago, it's also an Olympic season, so we knew there wouldn't be a ton of risk. I'm not going to pretend to be shocked. This isn't my first rodeo .

  14. #154
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    Does anyone else think they would benefit from just slowing down a little ?. Especially on the lifts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    Does anyone else think they would benefit from just slowing down a little ?. Especially on the lifts.
    There's a time limit on lifts, they can't slow down. If anything, D/W's lifts this year are quite statuesque and calm compared to what I associate them with - those insane multi position lifts, like in POTO.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by literaryfreak View Post
    There's a time limit on lifts, they can't slow down. If anything, D/W's lifts this year are quite statuesque and calm compared to what I associate them with - those insane multi position lifts, like in POTO.
    But sometimes they look a little awkward. But the system is

  17. #157

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    Judges like speed. And like literaryfreak said, the lifts are timed.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    It kind of feels like comparing apples and oranges because ice dance when Marina and Gwendal skated was a whole different sport than it is now.
    But given how long it took for the "old" skaters to adjust to the new judging system/how difficult it was for them, I'm not sure I'd agree with the fact that they're far more better skaters. They're different skaters with different strength because they skated in a very different era and had a very different focus.
    It's definitely comparing apples and oranges. A team couldn't win today if they skated the way the skated in the past, so even if it's your preference you certainly can't judge any of the current teams by it.

    Also, not everyone feels that way. I absolutely hated the old style. When I was younger I completely skipped over and disregarded ice dance because it was a joke to me. As a young dancer you'd think I'd gravitate to it more, like I do now, but I didn't. It was unathletic, it was all show and no substance to me. I do wish they would loosen up on some of the requirements for more creativity, but otherwise I prefer it.

    For example, the SD having both a compulsory sequence and a step sequence, plus twizzles and a lift, leaves almost no room for anything else. I'd also like to see more step sequence options for the FD. It would make judging harder, but it would be nice if a team could do a midline and circular, or a diagonal and circular non touching etc. And if timing wasn't so restrictive in lifts...oh and if they'd stop restricting lift positions too. Yes, some lifts are risky, but as long as pairs exists that isn't really a valid argument to me.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    Does anyone else think they would benefit from just slowing down a little ?. Especially on the lifts.
    After SLC they got feedback they should try and be faster, so at least the judges don't agree with you on this.

    Besides, I think they've already slowed down - and it's a good thing. They're not rushing and running through their programs anymore, like they did in the past. Which is also why I am totally when I STILL see people (VM fans mostly) using this same old criticism this year.
    I've even seen the "lack of control" argument again. I mean, really? They're so much IN control right now I don't think it's even possible to have more of it.

    I mean, I get DW might not be your cup of tea, but seing these arguments today makes me

    On another note, I've rewatched the SD a couple of times already and I must say the dress is really growing on me. I love it, all of it actually. It moves beautifully, the back is stunning, but the front is pretty as well. The color is to die for

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    After SLC they got feedback they should try and be faster, so at least the judges don't agree with you on this.

    Besides, I think they've already slowed down - and it's a good thing. They're not rushing and running through their programs anymore, like they did in the past. Which is also why I am totally when I STILL see people (VM fans mostly) using this same old criticism this year.
    I've even seen the "lack of control" argument again. I mean, really? They're so much IN control right now I don't think it's even possible to have more of it.

    I mean, I get DW might not be your cup of tea, but seing these arguments today makes me

    On another note, I've rewatched the SD a couple of times already and I must say the dress is really growing on me. I love it, all of it actually. It moves beautifully, the back is stunning, but the front is pretty as well. The color is to die for
    EVERYTHING. I agree with everything you just said.

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