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  1. #61
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    To be completely fair we already covered that...

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    To be completely fair we already covered that...
    but very ok to repeat every five six post some people has memory so weak can not even remember which team they watch or what tread this is

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    To be completely fair, Tessa and Scott also do some bits of running and really small hops in their FD - particularly in the second half and the second step sequence.
    Yes, and it's the first time they've ever had that kind of stuff in a program. I find it disappointing, but if their rivals fill all of their programs with it and get huge skating skills scores, what are they supposed to do? At least they don't do it nearly as much as D/W.

    The ISU has sent out the message that, outside of step sequences, blade work isn't important and is an unnecessary risk. I still don't understand in what universe V/M don't have the best skating skills, but the rules seem to have changed and they need to adapt, skate a little more like D/W. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
    Last edited by Zazy; 10-12-2013 at 03:06 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    To be completely fair, Tessa and Scott also do some bits of running and really small hops in their FD - particularly in the second half and the second step sequence. Of course, in their case it's also to accentuate the music. But the same could be said at least about some cases of running and hopping in Meryl and Charlie's programs. That said, I do realize that Tessa and Scott do that less anyway. I also know that this is not exactly about toe pick technique, or whatever it is called, I am just referring to the ongoing on and off discussion about running and hopping in Meryl and Charlie's programs.
    To be completely fair, Marina did say she was going to give them eachother's programs. She really wasn't lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zazy View Post
    Yes, and it's the first time they've ever had that kind of stuff in a program. I find it disappointing, but if their rivals fill all of their programs with it and get huge skating skills scores, what are they supposed to do? At least they don't do it nearly as much as D/W.

    The ISU has sent out the message that, outside of step sequences, blade work isn't important and is an unnecessary risk. I still don't understand in what universe V/M don't have the best skating skills, but the rules seem to have changed and they need to adapt, skate a little more like D/W. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
    I find it dissapointing too Maybe this time they'd get monster scores like DW (I know its not going to happen I am being an opitimist)

  5. #65
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    Hmmm, I don't think Marina totally gave D&W and V&M each others programs. I've seen V&M's new FD several times over and have seen the SLC performance of D&W and while V&M have appropriately (IMO) adjusted their programs to what the ISU seems to want and rewards IMO, D&W are still doing the style of skating they have become known for this quad.

    I'd also add that IMO while V&M have tried to create a FD that is in more in line with what the ISU has indicated they prefer, Tessa and Scott's technical skills and all the things that we've discussed that makes their basic skating so incredible are still there. Those things just aren't as in your face as in the Carmen FD when it was more obviously loaded beginning to end. The new FD has comparable difficulty but the presentation is softer and more sublte. If that makes sense.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    To be completely fair, Tessa and Scott also do some bits of running and really small hops in their FD - particularly in the second half and the second step sequence.
    I get the distinct feeling that this part of the program simply isn't done yet, that they're still filling in the gaps. Examples:

    1. It looked like they entered the first rotational lift too early (not on the music), because the choreography leading up to the lift isn't all there yet. If this is the lift that was too long (where they got the deduction), it would make even more sense- because they extended the lift in order to end with the music.
    2. Going into the second step sequence, there are a few seconds where the music is very fast and busy, and they're more or less gliding along, not dancing to the music. I'm pretty sure there's choreography to come there, as well.
    3. In the second step sequence, there's a part where they finish a turn and Tessa sort of runs a little to get into the next hold- I think one of them probably made a mistake there, it doesn't look intentional.

  7. #67

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    Sometimes it seems to me that VM are the novice skaters. Always have something wrong with them - costumes, programs, music, choreography, and the elements. And at the other ice dancers- masterpieces, perfect skating? costumes, music/
    I need to stay away from an Internet. Reminiscent of the 2009-2010 season

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Sometimes it seems to me that VM are the novice skaters. Always have something wrong with them - costumes, programs, music, choreography, and the elements. And at the other ice dancers- masterpieces, perfect skating? costumes, music/
    I need to stay away from an Internet. Reminiscent of the 2009-2010 season
    And that season ended with two wins!

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    And that season ended with two wins!
    Yes. But i dont think about medals, just about programs. I think VM never got positive reaction on there programs.
    As for medals. We have team competition. And if Patrick could skate clean and Osmond will not be last VM will have chance to get there medal at Team Event.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Sometimes it seems to me that VM are the novice skaters. Always have something wrong with them - costumes, programs, music, choreography, and the elements. And at the other ice dancers- masterpieces, perfect skating? costumes, music/
    I need to stay away from an Internet. Reminiscent of the 2009-2010 season
    It's kind of ironic that one of the "errors" we are discussing is that some of their choreography is similar to DW. The constant analysis and deconstruction of their programs can come across as constant criticism for sure.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by volunteer View Post
    It's kind of ironic that one of the "errors" we are discussing is that some of their choreography is similar to DW. The constant analysis and deconstruction of their programs can come across as constant criticism for sure.
    I dont see nothing common in VM FD with DW programs at all.
    Meryl and Charlie did TS lifts in FD, VM did all new for them lifts. As for hopes. Sorry, but why you didnt see this hopes from Tessa in Carmen and from Scott in last season SD from Scott?
    I really cant remeber skaters, who have sich fans, like VM, who aalwayse unhappy with all there favorite skaters doing.
    Look at DW group of fans. They post long posts about how NDP were amazing even today, all time talking about DW must win in 2009 and 2012 (guys, Bowns were also in 2010 at WCh, when DW won FD and 2013 WCH). And what is going on in VM thread....
    Meryl-Charlie are using there best style and its great, because they could show it the best. But when TS show there light skating, musicality, softness, easy skating, great speed, there fans start talking about they are junior skaters. Bravo!
    OK. I really need to have a break. Better untill OG

    At least you will never see such bad programs, costumes, lelemnts soon. Wait until February. And you can cheer for the other athletes. This will be nice.
    Last edited by pani; 10-12-2013 at 02:27 PM.

  12. #72
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    For what it's worth, I'm feeling optimistic and love both programs!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    I dont see nothing common in VM FD with DW programs at all.
    Meryl and Charlie did TS lifts in FD, VM did all new for them lifts. As for hopes. Sorry, but why you didnt see this hopes from Tessa in Carmen and from Scott in last season SD from Scott?
    I really cant remeber skaters, who have sich fans, like VM, who aalwayse unhappy with all there favorite skaters doing.
    Look at DW group of fans. They post long posts about how NDP were amazing even today, all time talking about DW must win in 2009 and 2012 (guys, Bowns were also in 2010 at WCh, when DW won FD and 2013 WCH). And what is going on in VM thread....
    Meryl-Charlie are using there best style and its great, because they could show it the best. But when TS show there light skating, musicality, softness, easy skating, great speed, there fans start talking about they are junior skaters. Bravo!
    OK. I really need to have a break. Better untill OG

    At least you will never see such bad programs, costumes, lelemnts soon. Wait until February. And you can cheer for the other athletes. This will be nice.
    Completely agree with Pani. I don't see them copying anyone, especially those who can't be named Then their fans use the criticism posted here to reinforce their own arguments. I just don't get a lot of the negativity here.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy123 View Post
    For what it's worth, I'm feeling optimistic and love both programs!
    Agreed! They always have to tweak and and build their programs because the programs are ambitious. All will be well devoted fans!

  15. #75
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    I think this one's been better received than both Mahler and Funny Face? Some people love this one, I mean fans. Not many flat out hate it. I can honestly say I loathed that horrible Funny Face music, although I loved the program by the GPF. I would watch it with the music off and admire all the crafty and artsy skating. Here, I actually like it the more I watch it. I think there are things that need work, but it's the start of the season. If there's a team that knows how to grow a program, it's this one. Just because we point out things that can (and will) be improved, doesn't mean we are bad fans. Some people believe everything is perfect from the first second of a program and that's the tune they'll sing all season long. I am realistic. I like the program, I could love it even, but I know they're working on perfecting it. I think that's great.

    Again, if your main concern is the gold medal, the PCS score should tell you that the program was well-received. If you wanted to see something more in your face, then there's nothing to do there.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Sometimes it seems to me that VM are the novice skaters. Always have something wrong with them - costumes, programs, music, choreography, and the elements. And at the other ice dancers- masterpieces, perfect skating? costumes, music/
    I need to stay away from an Internet. Reminiscent of the 2009-2010 season
    We are analysing Tessa and Scott's programs and sometimes criticizing parts of them because we are fans. I think otherwise we wouldn't be that interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    But when TS show there light skating, musicality, softness, easy skating, great speed, there fans start talking about they are junior skaters. Bravo!
    No one has talked about junior/novice skaters here except you.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 10-12-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    I dont see nothing common in VM FD with DW programs at all.
    At least you will never see such bad programs, costumes, lelemnts soon. Wait until February. And you can cheer for the other athletes. This will be nice.
    Oh pani, it's hard not to stress out for our favorites, isn't it? As far as the similarities go, I'm referring to the recent talk about "hopping" steps, of which there is a minimum of, but are done for choreographic effect as illustrated in the gif, not for Tessa to catch up to her partner.

    Regardless of the choreography, there is no comparison in the execution of the elements.
    Yes, I will cheer for other athletes, but there is only one team deserving of the gold.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Sometimes it seems to me that VM are the novice skaters. Always have something wrong with them - costumes, programs, music, choreography, and the elements. And at the other ice dancers- masterpieces, perfect skating? costumes, music/
    I need to stay away from an Internet. Reminiscent of the 2009-2010 season
    I blame the ISU. VM have to be 110% perfect to win while their rivals only need to be 80%.

  19. #79

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    I have had issues with the results ever since the short dance of 2011. To me - comparing the two top teams, the feel, rhumba/samba rhythm, chemistry, heat, - I could go on and on - were miles apart. I feel Scott nailed that and Tessa was in a league of her own. I hate that Tessa and Scott's perceived weakness get so much attention that they become accepted as fact yet we read over and over how true ice dance devotees sing their praises and want to emulate them. I know the results matter to Tessa and Scott and so it is hard as a fan to dismiss them - but I am going to try so hard this year. They are simply the very best. Here' to a fantastic season!
    pug lover

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    To be completely fair we already covered that...
    Sorry, I have read most (if not all) of the posts on this and the previous thread since the new FD was debuted, but I may have missed something.

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