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  1. #21
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    Huge Bebe Fan

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by itoaxel View Post
    What about the times she did skate really well though, like the 2005 Nationals short program. We all seem to agree she was way underscored there, and she did put it together. So even when she skated great she didnt get the marks.
    Politics. Don't forget Bebe was competing at a time when the US ladies field was stacked: Michelle and Sasha, then later Kimmie, Alissa, Emily, Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, etc. There was a pecking order (as there still is today) and unfortunately Bebe was rather low on the list...kind of the Christina Gao of back then. Lots of 5th place finishes at nationals and mid to low placements on the GP. I'm sure consistently stronger performances from Bebe would have raised her stock in the eyes of the USFSA considerably, especially after 2006, but she was not a consistent/reliable competitor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Wait, she IS Mirai's choreographer? Fantastic! Cant wait to see their work at Finlandia.
    No, she's not Mirai's choreographer. Mirai's SP and FS were done by Cindy Stuart this year and her EX was done by Adam Rippon. I remember Mirai skated for Bebe during the Young Artist Showcase competition last year and I remember hearing that Bebe had helped Mirai with some of her footwork that season, but she's not credited as her choreographer.

    Here's the to program "Firebird" Mirai skated for Bebe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...husabzV1k#t=92

    It's a lovely number. I wish Mirai would have used this as her program...
    Last edited by kwanatic; 09-23-2013 at 08:35 PM.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    You know what? I was thinking of stating this very thing but then thinking I would be chastised.. I completely agree.. Kwan's combo was slow and she was off timing on her spiral to miss the crescendo;
    Not a chastisement, but Kwan's timing on her spiral at 2005 Nationals was right on the money. She was off her timing at World's, where she had to re-work the program to comply with COP requirements.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    ...her spiral at 2005 Nationals was right on the money...
    BAM!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...6C3ysjQM#t=193
    Last edited by kwanatic; 09-23-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #25
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    These would have been my scores for the 2005 Nationals SP:

    Kwan- 5.8 technical, 5.9 presentation
    Bebe Liang- 5.7 technical, 5.7 presentation
    Cohen- 5.5 technical, 5.8 presentation
    Kirki- 5.4 technical, 5.4 presentation
    Meissner- 5.2 technical, 5.1 presentation (clean but average in every conceivable way, quality of jumps, spins, program, performance, meh)

    So I would have had Bebe 2nd. Meissner's performance was literally atleast a whole point inferior yet was still placed above.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    So I would have had Bebe 2nd. Meissner's performance was literally atleast a whole point inferior yet was still placed above.
    I loved Kimmie as a person but as a skater she was a little meh. The USFSA was excited about Kimmie b/c she had a "triple axel" (so URed it wasn't even funny) but they were trying to give her the cred points heading into a post-Torino landscape. They knew 2006 was going to be a changing of the guard and they were trying to get their ducks in a row early...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I loved Kimmie as a person but as a skater she was a little meh. The USFSA was excited about Kimmie b/c she had a "triple axel" (so URed it wasn't even funny) but they were trying to give her the cred points heading into a post-Torino landscape. They knew 2006 was going to be a changing of the guard and they were trying to get their ducks in a row early...
    So true. In fairness to Kimmie I do think she earned her 2006 World title and I was very happy for her. Well in some ways it could be questioned as today those triple-triples would never have been credited and dropped her to bronze probably, but it is what it is. I was also sad how her career fizzled out badly starting with 2008 Nationals. Still I agree on her being a terrific lady it is hard to root against, but as a skater meh.

    It just bothers me that skating judging can be so completely devoid of credability, based around political posturing and federation plans and these other things that something like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVtPNFYYso8

    could ever be placed behind and given considerably lower scores than something like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW8VvltVaU

    Honestly I doubt someone could give even a single explanation based strictly on the elements, program, or overall skating how Meissner was placed higher in that particular program. The only explanations would be "other" things that have nothing to do with those two particular performances at all. I have complained about how Hughes was scored vs Nikidinov over the years at Nationals, especialy in 2001, but atleast there even in the cases most strongly disagreed there were atleast a couple justifiable reasons based purely on the performances to place Hughes above. This is a whole other level.

  8. #28
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    ^^Geez her arms were terrible, bless her heart.

    It was a strong performance but overall Bebe was much more mature and polished, much more energetic, just overall it was a much better performance. Judges must have been smoking that night...

    I was thrilled for Kimmie when she won in 2006. That was a perfect example of seizing the moment and running away with it and she did. 2007 was a decent year for her but by then Miki and Mao were already climbing to the top of the ladies standings and slowly Kimmie got phased out. That next year she had growth issues and went downhill rapidly...it was really sad to see her struggle like that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Not a chastisement, but Kwan's timing on her spiral at 2005 Nationals was right on the money. She was off her timing at World's, where she had to re-work the program to comply with COP requirements.
    Thanks for the correction and then kwanfan with the link, It was right on.. I was confused with Worlds... In any event, her combo was a bit slow.. Regardless, Kwan is the Queen and I love her then and now, and Bebe was undermarker here terribly..

  10. #30

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    Was she the youngest skater to ever debut at Senior nationals?

  11. #31
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    I agree with those who said Bebe was undermarked in 2005. She should have gone to Worlds over Kirk that year, imo. She rocked that SP and had a solid LP performance. Easily the best choreographed LP of the US ladies that year too. So wonderfully musical.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8indel View Post
    Was she the youngest skater to ever debut at Senior nationals?
    Michelle was younger than Bebe.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzie Bear View Post
    I agree with those who said Bebe was undermarked in 2005. She should have gone to Worlds over Kirk that year, imo. She rocked that SP and had a solid LP performance. Easily the best choreographed LP of the US ladies that year too. So wonderfully musical.
    Yes what a waste to not send Bebe to Worlds that year. Kirk at that point was already a spent force, and she didnt even skate well at Nationals so it was easy to justify placing Bebe over her and sending her to Worlds instead but they still didnt. What a boost that might have been to Bebe's confidence and if she skated anything like Nationals she would have far outplaced Kirk's 17th place.

    Bebe then missed a huge chance to make the Olympic team next year, either directly by beating Meissner, or taking Hughes's place as the backdoor entry.

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