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  1. #81
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    Yagudin who was forced to stop competing in 2002 due to injuries is a 4 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. Plushenko who competed until 2010, and technically is still competing in fact, is a 3 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. If anything it is Plushenko's achievements that pale when you look at it that way. Yagudin had his career cut short by atleast 4 years of prime level skating, Plushenko skated over a decade longer, and Yagudin still has 1 more World and Olympic title.

  2. #82

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    Yeah, but it's not as if Plushenko consistently competed every season after Torino. Post-Torino, he only came back in the 2009-2010 season and didn't compete at Worlds. He's coming back now, but he hasn't competed in any season prior to this season during this cycle. Then there's the fact that he opted to not skate in 2006 Worlds and had to withdraw from 2005 Worlds due to injury.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Yeah, but it's not as if Plushenko consistently competed every season after Torino. Post-Torino, he only came back in the 2009-2010 season and didn't compete at Worlds. He's coming back now, but he hasn't competed in any season prior to this season during this cycle. Then there's the fact that he opted to not skate in 2006 Worlds and had to withdraw from 2005 Worlds due to injury.
    He could finished the 2005 Worlds and won silver or bronze, but he didnt want to so chose to WD. Many people miss the post Olympic Worlds. So really he skated until 2006, plus another Olympics in 2010. Yagudin had to stop in 2002. Plushenko still has less World and Olympic Golds. Who is better skater one can debate (although I would say Yagudin by a ton there) but in achievements Yagudin did more than Plushenko as far as big titles in half the career, and Plushenko had a whole quad he got to own without Yagudin, while Yagudin had to face and beat Plushenko to win all his big titles and did so, while makes Plushenko even worse in the comparision.

  4. #84
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    I blinked and missed Yagudin's second Olympic gold medal.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    He could finished the 2005 Worlds and won silver or bronze, but he didnt want to so chose to WD. Many people miss the post Olympic Worlds. So really he skated until 2006, plus another Olympics in 2010. Yagudin had to stop in 2002. Plushenko still has less World and Olympic Golds. Who is better skater one can debate (although I would say Yagudin by a ton there) but in achievements Yagudin did more than Plushenko as far as big titles in half the career, and Plushenko had a whole quad he got to own without Yagudin, while Yagudin had to face and beat Plushenko to win all his big titles and did so, while makes Plushenko even worse in the comparision.
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Yagudin who was forced to stop competing in 2002 due to injuries is a 4 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. Plushenko who competed until 2010, and technically is still competing in fact, is a 3 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. If anything it is Plushenko's achievements that pale when you look at it that way. Yagudin had his career cut short by atleast 4 years of prime level skating, Plushenko skated over a decade longer, and Yagudin still has 1 more World and Olympic title.
    Plushenko did not win those 100000000 world titles that you believe he should have for the same reason that forced Yagudin to retire: INJURIES. He is dealing with serious injuries since 2001 and his career was as good as it could be considering his health state. I doubt his objective ever was to surpass Yagudin's world titles (by the way Kurt Browning has 4 World titles too). He's not Terminator or something, jumping quads since 15 destroys the body, you know?
    Last edited by ciocio; 10-08-2013 at 11:45 AM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I blinked and missed Yagudin's second Olympic gold medal.
    I've missed it too and probably so did Yagudin.
    Last edited by ciocio; 10-08-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Axel View Post
    Okay. I adore Plushenko, and hope he wipes the ice with the 'babies' he will be skating against in Sochi (if he's well enough to make the team). However, THIS information is particularly UNFAIR! Yagudin's career came to a screeching halt when it was discovered that he had a malformation of the hip socket, and years of pounding quads on it didn't do him any favours. Sure, Plushenko has all those other medals since 2002 Skate America, where Yagudin skated last competitively. Had his body NOT betrayed him, I could have seen these two slugging it out for YEARS, perhaps both competing in Vancouver! So, if you TRULY want to compare them during both skaters competitive careers, cut out everything Plushenko did past that SA comp. Having one's career cut tragically short by catastrophic injury in NO WAY makes your accomplishments pale in comparrison to a skater who, (albeit has had his share of injuries) was able to continue in the sport. Just sayin'.
    You've missed my point, check the bold part.

    Wikipedia:

    Alexei Konstantinovich Yagudin (Russian: About this sound Алексей Константинович Ягудин​ (help·info); 18 March 1980) is a former Russian figure skater. His major achievements in his six years of eligible sports career include being the 2002 Olympic Champion, a four-time World Champion (1998, 1999, 2000, 2002), a three-time European Champion (1998, 1999, 2002), a two-time Grand Prix Final Champion (1998-1999, 2001-2002), a World Junior Champion (1996) and a two-time World Professional Champion (1998, 2002).

    Evgeni Viktorovich Plushenko (Russian: About this sound Евге́ний Ви́кторович Плю́щенко​ (help·info), Yevgeny Viktorovich Plyushchenko; born 3 November 1982) is a Russian figure skater. He is the 2006 Winter Olympics gold medalist, 2002 Winter Olympics silver medalist, and 2010 Winter Olympics silver medalist, three-time (2001, 2003, 2004) World champion, seven-time (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012) European champion, a four-time (1999-2000, 2000-2001, 2002-2003, 2004-2005) Grand Prix Final champion and a ten-time (1999–2002, 2004–2006, 2010, 2012–2013) Russian national champion.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    IIRC the SP standings were 1. Plushenko, 2. Abt, 3. Yagudin, 4. Serov (no major errors, no quad); everyone else had errors and/or no 3A either.
    So the fact that Yagudin was third and not fourth in that SP, and therefore "in control of his own destiny" heading into the freeskate, could be seen as a gift.
    Standings after the SP:

    1. Plushenko
    2. Abt
    3. Yagudin
    4. Anton Klykov (Who? )
    5. Alexei Vasilevsky (Who? )
    6. Klimkin
    7. Griazev
    8. Timchenko
    9. Serov

    http://www.fsonline.ru/index.php?opt...370&Itemid=456

    Judges' Technical scores for Yagudin: 5.2 5.1 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.2 Youtube video

    I can't find the judges' scores for Klykov or a video of his skate. Obviously, though, Serov was not in contention after the Short Program.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 10-09-2013 at 05:23 AM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    He could finished the 2005 Worlds and won silver or bronze, but he didnt want to so chose to WD.
    Really? you are so knowledgeable... if you want to know the real story come to Plushy's fan thread http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...o-Sochi/page24, he had a lot of pain, but he wanted to compete in his home country...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7i-xPjTcws
    Last edited by lala; 10-08-2013 at 07:40 PM.

  10. #90

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    U.S. Pairs: Urbanski/Marvel always were favored by U.S. judges at Nationals and then would place below Meno/Sand at Worlds.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikjil View Post
    U.S. Pairs: Urbanski/Marvel always were favored by U.S. judges at Nationals and then would place below Meno/Sand at Worlds.
    Always = 1993?

    In 1992 Meno and Sand were each skating with other partners.

    By 1994 Urbanski and Marval were each skating with other partners, and M&S won Nationals.

  12. #92
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    Urbanski & Marvel won Nationals in 1992 since both Kuchiki & Sand and Meno & Wendland bombed while they skated well, and international judges saw them as way better than Meno & Wendland and about equal to Kuchiki & Sand anyway.

    Urbanski & Marvel probably would have beaten Meno & Sand at Worlds in 93 had they done their Nationals performances. Meno & Sand skated 2 clean programs there and finished 5th, behind all teams that made mistakes apart from winners Brasseur & Eisler. Meno & Sand also didnt skate that great at Nationals that year.

    I really dont see any difference between National and International judges.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Really? you are so knowledgeable... if you want to know the real story come to Plushy's fan thread http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...o-Sochi/page24, he had a lot of pain, but he wanted to compete in his home country...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7i-xPjTcws
    Actually the Russian Federation forced him to participate and he felt extremely guilty when he had to WD, because it was obvious his body couldn't handle the effort. What's the point to win silver or bronze and destroy your body before the Olympics?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Actually the Russian Federation forced him to participate and he felt extremely guilty when he had to WD, because it was obvious his body couldn't handle the effort. What's the point to win silver or bronze and destroy your body before the Olympics?
    Eh, the Russian Federation.....

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Eh, the Russian Federation.....
    When Plushenko remained the only skater Russia had, the Federation stopped being so kind to him.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    One other example might be Yagudin and Plushenko. With all his international accomplishments, Yagudin was never Russian national champion. (Seems impossible, but it's true.)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian..._Championships
    I don´t think there was a preference towards Plushenko by national judges, Yagudin just did not skate as well at the Nationals.

    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Plushenko who competed until 2010, and technically is still competing in fact, is a 3 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. If anything it is Plushenko's achievements that pale when you look at it that way. Yagudin had his career cut short by atleast 4 years of prime level skating, Plushenko skated over a decade longer, and Yagudin still has 1 more World and Olympic title.
    If one compares their achievements, Plushenko is leading, because besides gold he has also won two silver medals at the Olympics. Yagudin won one Olympic medal and 4 WC.
    Last edited by Jaana; 10-09-2013 at 10:16 AM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    Ryan Bradley always seemed to be appreciated more by US judges. He was National champ in the US but never was close to the top 10 at worlds. His rivals seemed to do better at worlds
    That's true, although I think he usually skated better at US Nats than internationally. At the 2011 Nats, he was ON FIRE, but the 2011 Worlds performances were lackluster. It didn't even seem like the same LP.

  18. #98
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    Maofan posted articles in the thread about 1936 Olympics. One of those goes on about post war skating and mentions:

    In the meantime the I.S.U. had decided to hold International Competitions in 1950 in London when Miss L. Waring and Mr. M. McGean of the U.S.A. won and then in 1951 in Milan when the winners were L. Demmy and Miss J. T. Westwood. This international competition was raised to the status of Championship of the World in 1952 when L. Demmy and Miss J. T. Westwood won (in Paris) with Slater and Dewhirst second. It was odd that in England, British judges had Slater and Dewhirst in front on two occasions whereas International panels always preferred Demmy and Westwood, who continued to win the event until 1955 when Mr. Demmy announced his retirement for business reasons and Jean Westwood left for a professional appointment in the U.S.A.

    [source: http://www.iceskatemag.co.uk/page87.html]

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