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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddlj View Post
    Ummm... love you all... but this thread is about Evan Lysacek, and whether or not he will be skating this season.
    so sorry, you are right
    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    You were scared, come on, You are a fighter, . I take it as there's something in my posts you don't like to see.
    You can't provoke me..

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    You can't provoke me..
    Can't believe it didn't work, fine, let me try the other ways, oh, lala, I beg you, argue with me. LOL

  3. #143

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    If plushenko doing quads meant that he was incapable of doing a 3 jump combo he should have totally duplicated what kinds of programs won the 2008 and 2009 worlds and done a 2010 cop program. Like there was a reason only 4 men did quads in the sp and no one else in the top 10 attempted a quad triple and barely any did quads at all. In order to win in 2010 plushenko should have had a lysacek program or chan or Oda or maybe a solo quad like takahashi or Abbott and had a 3/5 layout instead of the 5/3 layout. The problem was that was all leading to elimination of quads and quad combos from men's skating Which starting at the 1998 Olympics you had a winner with a solo quad attempt. I'd rather the loser program than the winner program. But if plushenko had been smart he wound have Not done any quads at all. But it's not about what plushenko should have done to win but what should be necessary for winning!

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    So Plushenko made the strategic decision to omit a double jump. No different than Lysacek making the strategic decision to omit the quad. In the end, Lysacek completed one more jump element than Plushenko and won by 1.31 points.
    He felt his double loop was made up by being the only man to do a quad triple in both sp and lp probably. He miscalculated the value of quads-none!
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 09-27-2013 at 07:37 PM.

  5. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post

    He felt his double loop was made up by being the only man to do a quad triple in both sp and lp probably. He miscalculated the value of quads-none!
    The quad had value, in fact it had more base value than any other element. However, his quad jump was just ONE element in each program.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Just like when people talked about 6.0 footwork, they like to take Yagudin as an example. They are the representative person, you should be proud of it.
    Yagudin footwork = three-turns and toe-steps.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    The quad had value, in fact it had more base value than any other element. However, his quad jump was just ONE element in each program.
    But it turned out to be not enough. He needed those post halfway point Bonuses and three jump combo so his program was all wrong in every way on jumps and needed to be modeled not on 2006 Olympics but 2008 or 2009 worlds models. He must have thought he Could eliminate the three jump combo for quad triples and it was equal. But he did 3 jump combo in 2006 but never in 2009 or 2010. And That has not been explained. So the issues with the scoring were on the program designers which overestimated the value of 5/3 layout with quad triple and no 3 jump combo.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Yagudin footwork = three-turns and toe-steps.
    I am amused there are always silly people compare his footwork during an era when skaters failed on their jumps, they got zero points for their footwork unlike IJS skaters got credit for footwork no matter what. And IJS skater can get points for falls, when 6.0 skaters got zero credit for that.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I am amused there are always silly people compare his footwork during an era when skaters failed on their jumps, they got zero points for their footwork unlike IJS skaters got credit for footwork no matter what. And IJS skater can get points for falls, when 6.0 skaters got zero credit for that.
    All of which has nothing to do with his footwork being extremely simple.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    All of which has nothing to do with his footwork being extremely simple.
    I am sorry, not what Dick Button said about his footwork, "extremely difficult" comment about his 2002 lp circular sequence, and "I can't tell ya how difficult that footwork is" for the footwork in his racing sp.

  11. #151
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    All IJS skater fans, unless your idol is Patrick Chan, who can do difficult tricks and land quad at the same time, other wise have no right to comment about those legendary skaters from 6.0. The purpose of the new system is seeking more challenge for the sport. When the jumps almost get to its limit, naturally they ask you to do more to make the sport more challenging, it's the natural development process, not because IJS skaters are better.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    After Evan skated his SP, and was waiting on his marks, one of the British Eurosport commentators
    Who are always idiots. They are the same ones who implied Rakammo & Kokko deserved the 95 World title over Gritschuk & Platov, and that Kwan deserved the 95 World title over Lu Chen. So whatever they happened to say, the reverse was probably true. It almost always is.

  13. #153

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    I mean I think it's safe to say that Yagudin and Morosov brought footwork back in style despite how simple it used to be. Compare people's footwork sections before and after SLC.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I mean I think it's safe to say that Yagudin and Morosov brought footwork back in style despite how simple it used to be. Compare people's footwork sections before and after SLC.
    It's not just Yagudin and Morosov, it's more of a team work. That's Tarasova's idea,"now, all the skaters can do quads, let's increase the difficulty of our footwork", I never think Tarasova is a good coach, as a coach, she's worse than Kathy Johnson. But definitely an intelligent woman. You can see her idea is the same with the new system. And both Yagudin and Morosov's actual work. But they didn't get credit at first, at the beginning, the judges still rewarded the jumps a lot. That's after quite a while and they got credit for their work and program.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    But it turned out to be not enough. He needed those post halfway point Bonuses and three jump combo so his program was all wrong in every way on jumps and needed to be modeled not on 2006 Olympics but 2008 or 2009 worlds models. He must have thought he Could eliminate the three jump combo for quad triples and it was equal. But he did 3 jump combo in 2006 but never in 2009 or 2010. And That has not been explained. So the issues with the scoring were on the program designers which overestimated the value of 5/3 layout with quad triple and no 3 jump combo.
    But the rule applies to everyone. It's like, I think it's quite ironic that Chan's two failed triples at 2013 worlds got same points as a level 4 step sequence(I mean his step sequence, if it's someone else's, that's even more than), considering how people praise the new system focuses more on skating instead of jumps. But that rule applies to everyone not just Chan. Give higher marks than skaters actually do on ice is much worse because it can vary depends on people's reputation. The judge gave Plushenko 6 on transition actually gave him 9.5 on P/E and Interpretation. That's the ideal way to mark PCS imo. I am sick of those judges always give almost identical marks on each category of PCS. That makes the sport less interesting. Plushenko actually got the highest P/E and Interpretation that night(I cry for those who claimed that their skater had the best artistry in the universe).

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I am sorry, not what Dick Button said about his footwork, "extremely difficult" comment about his 2002 lp circular sequence, and "I can't tell ya how difficult that footwork is" for the footwork in his racing sp.
    at using Dick Button as authority given how much crap keeps spewing out of his mouth.

    Three-turns and toe-steps aren't hard. On the contrary, they are the easiest turn and step there is in skating. Of course performing them at high speed and with a lot of attack can be really enjoyable to watch. But this is supposed to be a competitive sport and not light entertainment. Thank feck for IJS.

    (P.S. Yes, it's a pointless argument to be having. But as this thread is completely pointless and has been derailed long ago, why not. )
    Last edited by Ziggy; 09-28-2013 at 01:30 AM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    at using Dick Button as authority given how much crap keeps spewing out of his mouth.

    Three-turns and toe-steps aren't hard. On the contrary, they are the easiest turn and step there is in skating. Of course performing them at high speed and with a lot of attack can be really enjoyable to watch. But this is supposed to be a competitive sport and not light entertainment. Thank feck for IJS.

    (P.S. Yes, it's a pointless argument to be having. But as this thread is completely pointless and has been derailed long ago, why not. )
    Simple footwork can be very difficult depends on the speed, the way people execute it. The complex IJS footwork is more of a more rahter than more difficult considering how slow and jerky it is. That slowness totally even out its complexity. And not to mention those ridiculous features, if you do the arm flailing more, you get higher level while some arm flailings actually help with the balance. And how difficult it is if a 6.0 skater like Plushenko was among the first to get the level 4, almost all the skaters now can do level 3 or 4 no matter how bad their SS is. I bet the ISU still hasn't found a proper way to judge the footwork yet, that's why they are still keep adjusting the rule. And the point is skaters today are still doing the same jumps as 12 years ago, of course they should do more on other things, there's nothing to brag about. I don't consider it a huge development. If I only want to see good footworks, grab any ice dancer from senior group they can do better.

  18. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Simple footwork can be very difficult depends on the speed, the way people execute it. The complex IJS footwork is more of a more rahter than more difficult considering how slow and jerky it is. That slowness totally even out its complexity. And not to mention those ridiculous features, if you do the arm flailing more, you get higher level while some arm flailings actually help with the balance.
    Footwork used to also be in an actual pattern, straight line, circular, and serpentine, which added difficulty precisely because of the restriction of the shape. Now meandering from one side of the rink to the other virtually using all the ice is considered straight line.

  19. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    at using Dick Button as authority given how much crap keeps spewing out of his mouth.
    Yeah, the winner of

    - 2 Olympic Gold Medals
    - 5 World Championships
    - A European Championship
    - 7 National Championships

    probably does not have clue about skating . . . and he did nothing for 50 years in terms of talking up the sport and the Winter Olympics, in general, so that there would be commercial sponsorship when the USA, the dominant economic power at the time, was not winning much.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Yeah, the winner of

    - 2 Olympic Gold Medals
    - 5 World Championships
    - A European Championship
    - 7 National Championships

    probably does not have clue about skating :eyerolls: . . . and he did nothing for 50 years in terms of talking up the sport so that it could get commercial sponsorship.
    And not just Dick Button, there are lots of other experts, they are all craps. Ok, let's watch out how Ziggy's knowledge about figure skating. I am a curious person and like to study.

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