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  1. #61

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    If Evan did petition for an Olympic spot without having competed (he won't) this season it would be nothing like Kwan's situation. Kwan was reigning National Champ (8 times in a row, I might add) and was just off the podium at the previous Worlds and had medaled at Worlds (and won) that very same quad. Even with those credentials Kwan still had to prove her readiness (and did). Evan would not ask for any such spot without competing at least once and I seriously doubt the US would give it to him when we only have 2 spots to spare, anyway.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by savedbyscreetch View Post
    Translation - Evan will skip the GP events and claim an injury at nationals should he struggle in the short. Then try and petition his way onto the team just like Kwan did for the sake of dollar-dollar bills.
    Since they didn't give Sasha a spot when she tried for the comeback, I don't think they'd give one to Evan in a petition. With only two spots, and him not competing for 4 years, it would be an absolute farce if they did.

  3. #63
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    There would be a difference between Lysacek filing a petition and the petition being accepted, unless he already had a pending promise to accept it, or he wouldn't bother to file.

    Although Lysacek has not skated in four years, he is the reigning Olympic champion and a World Champion, unlike Cohen, and if he comes with sponsors important to USFS, that could have some influence.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Except Evan will still need an international event to qualify for the Olympics
    Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria (Nov. 19-24) is the latest of the 6 Senior B comps currently listed on USFS' International Assignments page.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    There are also two Senior B's after US Nats and before the Olympic filing deadline of 27 Jan 14.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  6. #66
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    I think that if Lysacek doesn't compete internationally before Nationals then he likely won't show up to compete in Boston.

    ETA: USFS has sent skaters in previous years to Golden Spin of Zagreb in Croatia - 2013 dates are Dec. 5-8.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #67
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    I wondered if he didn't want to compete internationally before he was in shape and knowing if he was going to make the US team, to not play his hand before he had to.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I wondered if he didn't want to compete internationally before he was in shape and knowing if he was going to make the US team, to not play his hand before he had to.
    I don't think "not playing one's hand" is any advantage or incentive whatsoever in sports in general and especially in figure skating. I don't know of any skater who has benefited from secrecy until they burst onto the stage, surprised everyone, and took home all the cake.

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    If Evan has had successive injuries for the last two years, how on earth is he going to skate out on the ice in Boston with two dazzling programs and still remain uninjured to skate equally brilliantly the following month in Sochi? It's fantasyland. I admire him hugely for working ridiculously hard. He can hold his head up high at what he's accomplished. Michelle Kwan's wonderful quote comes to mind: "I'm not bitter, I'm just bitter about my body." Evan's body has made his decision for him. I feel badly for him. But there it is. I hope to see him skate somewhere.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    I don't think "not playing one's hand" is any advantage or incentive whatsoever in sports in general and especially in figure skating. I don't know of any skater who has benefited from secrecy until they burst onto the stage, surprised everyone, and took home all the cake.
    Perhaps you weren't a Knicks fan in 1970
    http://youtu.be/qqWD5lhGBOQ?t=3m18s

    Virtue and Moir said that they did everything possible to hide their pain, because they felt that if they showed any vulnerability, the judges would use it to mark them down. They haven't been the only skaters to make this point. Linichuk was renowned for playing games, pulling her athletes from various competitions to keep people guessing, and Vasiliev almost had a cow accusing the Chinese of exaggerating Zhao's injury to play head games with T/M in 2006.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Perhaps you weren't a Knicks fan in 1970
    http://youtu.be/qqWD5lhGBOQ?t=3m18s

    Virtue and Moir said that they did everything possible to hide their pain, because they felt that if they showed any vulnerability, the judges would use it to mark them down. They haven't been the only skaters to make this point. Linichuk was renowned for playing games, pulling her athletes from various competitions to keep people guessing, and Vasiliev almost had a cow accusing the Chinese of exaggerating Zhao's injury to play head games with T/M in 2006.
    Granted, if your opponent is one team or one person, you can make a run for it by playing mind games, although the result is often more wishful thinking than real effectiveness, I'm willing to bet.

    In something like figure skating, where you are playing against an entire field of opponents plus yourself plus judges, I think it's laughable to believe that secrecy and mind manipulation techniques can be an advantage. Vasiliev has issues with paranoia and could accuse Chinese team of sacrificing live pigs to the skating gods. As for Linichuk, I think she believes in her own little games but the effectiveness of them remains unproven.

    Judges' impression should be a grave concern for anyone who's toying with secrecy as a strategy. Skating is a subjective sport and it is not uncommon that many judges "don't know how they feel" about a program or performance upon first viewing. Their opinions tend to take shape and reach consensus over numerous viewings and discussions with colleagues and "buzz on the street." I'd say secrecy poses more risk than advantage in this sport, unless you possess the technical goods that are almost definitely going to outgun everyone in the field.

  12. #72

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    Maybe the 'plan' is to get Evan on the team via petition (2nd spot, after the US champ), have him skate in the Team Event to get NBC viewers to tune in. Then Evan will become conveniently "indisposed" after the Team Event, thus allowing enough time for the man who came in 2nd at the U.S. Natonals -- the alternate -- to get to Sochi before the start of the REAL Men's event.

    I sincerely hope NOT but, sorry to say, it's all about the .
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Maybe the 'plan' is to get Evan on the team via petition (2nd spot, after the US champ), have him skate in the Team Event to get NBC viewers to tune in. Then Evan will become conveniently "indisposed" after the Team Event, thus allowing enough time for the man who came in 2nd at the U.S. Natonals -- the alternate -- to get to Sochi before the start of the REAL Men's event.
    Serious question: would that be allowed? I've been trying to find the answer to this question ever since it became apparent that a) Russia only can send one man and b) Plushy's body is held together with racetape and cable ties. So far, I have not been able to find a direct answer to the question of what happens if someone gets injured during the team event.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Maybe the 'plan' is to get Evan on the team via petition (2nd spot, after the US champ), have him skate in the Team Event to get NBC viewers to tune in. Then Evan will become conveniently "indisposed" after the Team Event, thus allowing enough time for the man who came in 2nd at the U.S. Natonals -- the alternate -- to get to Sochi before the start of the REAL Men's event.

    I sincerely hope NOT but, sorry to say, it's all about the .
    A genuine question (as someone else upthread suggested that Evan "brings lots of sponsors with him" or something) but is he really that much of a draw$$$?

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Serious question: would that be allowed? I've been trying to find the answer to this question ever since it became apparent that a) Russia only can send one man and b) Plushy's body is held together with racetape and cable ties. So far, I have not been able to find a direct answer to the question of what happens if someone gets injured during the team event.

    Excellent question, misskarme!

    I too am interested in the response. The first thing that came to mind was the 1992 Olympics in Women's Gymnastics (I recall it like yesterday): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Gutsu

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by savedbyscreetch View Post
    Translation - Evan will skip the GP events and claim an injury at nationals should he struggle in the short. Then try and petition his way onto the team just like Kwan did for the sake of dollar-dollar bills.
    I ensure you even as cocky as he can Evan wont dare try and petition onto the team if he WDs from Nationals or does not complete it, even if he has the qualifying score to be eligible for the Games. Unless he somehow won Skate America with a monstrous score or something like that. He would have no case and he knows it.

    Michelle Kwan did have a case since she was 4th at the 2005 Worlds and no other American ladies at the time, outside Cohen of course, were capable of anything near that (Meissner's shock World title to come in a depleted post Olympic field aside). It wasnt like she had been away since 2002 and simply showed up expecting a bye.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Judges' impression should be a grave concern for anyone who's toying with secrecy as a strategy. Skating is a subjective sport and it is not uncommon that many judges "don't know how they feel" about a program or performance upon first viewing. Their opinions tend to take shape and reach consensus over numerous viewings and discussions with colleagues and "buzz on the street." I'd say secrecy poses more risk than advantage in this sport, unless you possess the technical goods that are almost definitely going to outgun everyone in the field.
    You seem to be assuming that a skater would perform in front of the same judge or judges at multiple competitions, which is rarely the case. Also, it would be pretty unethical for a judge to discuss a performance with colleagues or base his or her marks on anything other than what happens on the ice at the competition the judge is assessing. Yes, judges are human, but they are not supposed to be thinking, "Gee, everyone is raving about so and so's layback, let me give it a +3," they're supposed to be thinking, "What GOE criteria do I see here at this moment."
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  18. #78

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    re. the possibility of 'machinations' to get Evan on the team just to promote the Team Event, then possibly 'pull' him from the regular Men's event (with whatever excuse) and call the Men's alternate to Sochi to skate the Men's event: Well, YES - the rule for any competition is that an alternate can step in, assuming that USFSA will name alternates to all disciplines. I'm sure that Sylvia or someone else can quote chapter and verse in the ISU regs, but I remember reading that alternates can be named & used, provided the substitution is made within the # of days before the draw for the short programs. The Men's event is not until the following week, so there will be plenty of time for #2 (or #3) at US Nationals to make it to Sochi, especially if USFSA is savvy enough to obtain visas for all alternates as soon as those alternates are named.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    TSL seemed to indicate that they already have called Jason...
    I would hope so. I would hate to see this case with Lysacek become a repeat of the Cohen saga from the 2009 GP season when she withdrew from her GP event so late that a replacement for her could not be called upon in a timely manner. It's a shame when so many capable skaters would love the opportunity to compete, yet are unable to do so and an entry spot simply stays vacant because of another athlete's indecision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
    If Evan has had successive injuries for the last two years, how on earth is he going to skate out on the ice in Boston with two dazzling programs and still remain uninjured to skate equally brilliantly the following month in Sochi? It's fantasyland. I admire him hugely for working ridiculously hard. He can hold his head up high at what he's accomplished. Michelle Kwan's wonderful quote comes to mind: "I'm not bitter, I'm just bitter about my body." Evan's body has made his decision for him. I feel badly for him. But there it is. I hope to see him skate somewhere.
    Marina Anissina's comeback is more realistic at this stage.

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