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  1. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by apatinar View Post
    Something has to be done - and QUICK!!!! A new short program AND long program that is fierce and powerful would do the trick! Something that would cover up the lack of polish and finesse like Slutskaya was able to do brilliantly
    Let's not get carried away here.

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  3. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Yadda Yadda Yadda with the Russian lady talk already. It was just three years ago when people were debating how long and by how large a point margin Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva would dominate ladies skating. Three years later and the gold medal favorites in Sochi are Kim and Asada, the same two favorites in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Sot and Tukt are in jeopardy of not making the Olympic team. Let's see the current batch of Russia wunderkids in three years. No, skip that, let's give them 18 months and see what happens.

  4. #744

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    It was her own "team" that tried to create most of the hype via YouTube, articles, appearances, etc, so why complain now about overhyping?!
    Oh really? A lot of the hype came from Phil Hersh. Who AFAIK is not part of Gracie's "team".
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  5. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    pretty boring so far this season...........
    A TEB title and a SA silver + GPF qualification is boring? Got a US lady doing better this season?
    ETA: of course, I meant SA. Thanks, kwanette.
    Last edited by IceAlisa; 11-21-2013 at 12:06 AM.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  6. #746
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    I think Hersh did a lot of hyping because she was a local skater. If she was in California or Colorado at the time, I'm not sure he'd say as much about her.

  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Yadda Yadda Yadda with the Russian lady talk already. It was just three years ago when people were debating how long and by how large a point margin Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva would dominate ladies skating. Three years later and the gold medal favorites in Sochi are Kim and Asada, the same two favorites in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Sot and Tukt are in jeopardy of not making the Olympic team. Let's see the current batch of Russia wunderkids in three years. No, skip that, let's give them 18 months and see what happens.
    Just you wait, fenway2; just you wait. You'll never know what hit ya.

  8. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    A TEB title and a SC silver + GPF qualification is boring? Got a US lady doing better this season?
    Not saying Ashley has been boring. The season has been. No US Lady has done anything to show they can even try to dethrone Ashley.

  9. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    Not saying Ashley has been boring. The season has been. No US Lady has done anything to show they can even try to dethrone Ashley.
    I think the season has been fun so far. Le shrug.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  10. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Yadda Yadda Yadda with the Russian lady talk already. It was just three years ago when people were debating how long and by how large a point margin Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva would dominate ladies skating. Three years later and the gold medal favorites in Sochi are Kim and Asada, the same two favorites in Vancouver. Meanwhile, Sot and Tukt are in jeopardy of not making the Olympic team. Let's see the current batch of Russia wunderkids in three years. No, skip that, let's give them 18 months and see what happens.
    I wouldn't speak too soon about the Russians............

  11. #751

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    I wouldn't speak too soon about the Russians............
    US wunderkinds Edmunds/Wang/Chen are hardly chopped liver. Let's let the cards play.

  12. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    No US Lady has done anything to show they can even try to dethrone Ashley.
    Gold showed at SC she can go toe-to-toe with Wagner in the SP. Gold's FS needs a bit of work, though.

    If Wagner falls 2x like she did at Nationals - she is vulnerable. Look how close Gold came to beating her even with that disaster of a SP...

    Zawadzki will be competing this weekend in Russia. Let's see what improvements she has made, if any.

  13. #753

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    Why is Frank changing a short program that scored 69 points at SC?? All she has to do is land jumps and she will score big. Work on the consistency. Not new things that will make a skater more nervous when nerves are already a problem. So far she has scored poorly in the long. Keep the music but tweak it is all I would do. Gracie has had so many changes in such a short time, I fear for the rest of her season. I think Frank is a great coach but hope what he is doing will pay off.

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    The only thing that really worries me about Gracie is the reported decline in both the height of her jumps and speed.

    Those two qualities are what made her PCS competitive. Period. If they go, the whole show is over.

    I would hate to see it happen, but it would not surprise me if her speed and height are sacrificed to make her into a skater who would score well under the 6.0 system and is generally is more pleasant to watch. It will prove once and for all that USFSA really doesn't get COP AT ALL.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  15. #755

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    The only thing that really worries me about Gracie is the reported decline in both the height of her jumps and speed.

    Those two qualities are what made her PCS competitive. Period. If they go, the whole show is over.

    I would hate to see it happen, but it would not surprise me if her speed and height are sacrificed to make her into a skater who would score well under the 6.0 system and is generally is more pleasant to watch. It will prove once and for all that USFSA really doesn't get COP AT ALL.
    Haven't read the whole thread and not sure if it has been mentioned before but the British commentators were saying that it was specific instruction from Frank who told Gracie 'you don't have to skate so fast and you don't have to jump so high'.

    I agree it's a shame to lose the amazing explosive skating she had but by the same token, she did look manic sometimes, I guess it's about the right balance and consistency.

  16. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIVER View Post
    Haven't read the whole thread and not sure if it has been mentioned before but the British commentators were saying that it was specific instruction from Frank who told Gracie 'you don't have to skate so fast and you don't have to jump so high'.

    I agree it's a shame to lose the amazing explosive skating she had but by the same token, she did look manic sometimes, I guess it's about the right balance and consistency.
    Between changing the short (and not the long program) and scaling back Gracie's speed, plus the height of her jumps, I haven't been pleased with Frank's choices for Gold so far. It's still early in their relationship but I'm worried. Carroll is a great coach but he doesn't work for everyone, as we've seen in the past. I can't wrap my head around why he would mess with Gracie's best qualities. I'm sure he has his reasons...

  17. #757
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    If slowing down helps her consistency, fine...but otherwise...

    I hated that SP but that said, she was scoring well with it- so from that standpoint a change there wasn't absolutely needed. (Glad to see it go though)

    But in the process of learning a new SP, hopefully it doesn't take time away from improving her FS, which truly is what needs the bulk of the work and effort if she is to top Wagner at Nationals and be competitive for top 5 at Olys/Worlds.
    Last edited by RD; 11-21-2013 at 01:02 AM.

  18. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    The only thing that really worries me about Gracie is the reported decline in both the height of her jumps and speed.

    Those two qualities are what made her PCS competitive. Period.
    I sure hope not. Height of jumps is supposed to be factored into GOE, not PCS.

    And, as has been said before, the strategy appears to be sacrificing some speed for consistency and control.

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    Has anyone considered that part of the reason why Gracie has been doing poorly in the LP is because the SP, though high-scoring, is taking too much out of her? Maybe she just doesn't have enough fuel left in the tank to cope with the LP after skating that SP. Maybe Carroll thought skating slower and jumping lower would be enough to save her energy for the LP, but it turned out not to be the case. So they are now scrapping the SP altogether. I'm betting they are going to get her a SP that's a lot calmer and more lyrical, so that she can conserve more energy for the LP.
    I would not be hasty to criticize Carroll. He somehow got Evan Lysacek an OGM, whoever saw that coming? And he got Denis Ten so much better a skater (and so much better results) in a rather short time. He is a great coach, and definitely looks like he understands COP very well. I think Gracie is in fine hands.

  20. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I sure hope not. Height of jumps is supposed to be factored into GOE, not PCS.

    And, as has been said before, the strategy appears to be sacrificing some speed for consistency and control.
    Again, that same strategy worked for Kostner when Carroll coached her.

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