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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    You mean Frank is warm & fuzzy? That's news to me.
    No, I don't mean that at all. That's why I said it would not be a big change if she moves to Frank.
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Who better than Carroll, perhaps with some help from Nichol?
    Phillip Mills? Look what he did for Ashley.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    Here is Gracie's new SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU_Qcg4ekMY
    I have to be honest, I don't find this a huge improvement compared to last year.

    A choaching change at this point of the season seems very odd. If she really switched right after Champs Camp, maybe she got bad feedback there and simply panicked? It just all seems a little rushed ... I hope she knows what she is doing. We will probably never find out what really went on behind the scenes ...
    I don't like the music at all, but then I was never a fan of Gershwin. I do think that it's a good move to go to Frank. He will smooth out the rough spots and hopefully get her new music. It certainly can't hurt her to move to him. She has all the technical abilities to be a great skater, the work ethic and talent she just needs someone to help with the confidence and fine tune her programs and Frank would be perfect for her. She is a lot more artistic then Timothy ever was and Frank was able to help him get an Olympic bronze medal so who knows what he can do with Gracie.

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    Don't you guys think it's a little odd to look at reasons why the change is a poor decision as opposed to why it might be a fabulous one? Also, why wouldn't the obvious reaction be that something must not have been working in her old situation so of COURSE she switched coaches.

    Frank Carrol in my mind does not make immense drastic changes right away in a skater say the way Tarasova would. He does a terrific job at ironing out the details, providing structure and emotionally giving his pupils what they need. How do we know that Gracie felt more pressure living up to the expectations of her coaching team than she could deal with?

    As far as the program goes, for all the pissing and moaning I hear about skaters not using novel concepts, her choreography and music are as far away from "warhorse" as possible. She has been transparent about how cognizant she is regarding her shortcomings in her skating... I guess I just didn't expect all the jabs at her that I am reading. While I respect her, personally, I am emotionally invested as a fan into Alissa ( watcher her practice recently and it actually inspired me to work harder in my own job), Mirai, Caroline and Ashley but I still respect Gracie's abilities.

    One thing that Franks does seem to advocate is his skaters having positive attitudes and great sportsmanship. Hopefully this will be evident while on camera.

  5. #65

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    I spoke with Gracie this morning while here at Challenge Skate...just as a fan. She was very sweet and easy to talk to. I told her I was rooting for her to make the Olympic Team and she said "That is my dream." I say more power to her. I love that she wants to improve and is doing what it takes and trying as hard as she can to get an Olympic spot. I would like to see more US ladies with this type of drive to improve and succeed. I've been watching Gracie in practice and competition here and she has definitely improved her presentation from last year in such a short time. Her arms and shoulders are better, as are her extensions on her spiral. She is not skating so square and I am seeing more torso twist? Her jumps still look very good. I have seen a number of perfect triple lutz/triple toe combos and her 2 axel/3toe combo. Spins are great as is her speed. It has to be hard to be competing here without her coach and being in transition, so far she is doing pretty well here.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    IMO, Kostner had outstanding musicality from her senior debut in 2003. I don't think she's so much stronger artistically now as that she has cleaned up her jumps and doesn't make as many jarring mistakes (back then, she used to be wobbly and have step outs and hands down even on the jumps she landed).
    I didn't find Carolina to be musical at all, until the last 2-3 years. She was essentially a jumping bean who skated very fast and very inconsistently. The Carolina we are seeing now (after the 2010 Olympics) is a skater who has reinvented herself as an artist.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnskater View Post
    I spoke with Gracie this morning while here at Challenge Skate...just as a fan. She was very sweet and easy to talk to. I told her I was rooting for her to make the Olympic Team and she said "That is my dream." I say more power to her. I love that she wants to improve and is doing what it takes and trying as hard as she can to get an Olympic spot. I would like to see more US ladies with this type of drive to improve and succeed. I've been watching Gracie in practice and competition here and she has definitely improved her presentation from last year in such a short time. Her arms and shoulders are better, as are her extensions on her spiral. She is not skating so square and I am seeing more torso twist? Her jumps still look very good. I have seen a number of perfect triple lutz/triple toe combos and her 2 axel/3toe combo. Spins are great as is her speed. It has to be hard to be competing here without her coach and being in transition, so far she is doing pretty well here.
    Thanks for the report. I like that she wants to improve too. I hope she ends up with Frank.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I didn't find Carolina to be musical at all, until the last 2-3 years. She was essentially a jumping bean who skated very fast and very inconsistently. The Carolina we are seeing now (after the 2010 Olympics) is a skater who has reinvented herself as an artist.
    Not only that Carolina is over 8 years older then Gracie and didn't become a complete skater until she was like 24 years old. Gracie has time.

  9. #69

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    At the risk of staying off-topic with Kostner, I think Kostner always had potential. However, she was always sort of frantic, messy with her movement, seemed almost uncoordinated, and never really knew how to truly feel the music of her routines. Kostner definitely had moments, but nobody really taught her how to move properly. For me, her 2005-2006 LP to Vivaldi's Winter shows it. That program had loads of potential, but Kostner never looked really comfortable with it.

    It was not until, IMO, 2007 with that great Canon SP where I saw her real potential. However, it floundered with her skating troubles. I think after two horrible seasons (2009 and 2010), Kostner somehow reinvented herself. I don't know if it was Michael Huth (who was her original coach before she moved around), Lori Nichol (who choreographed for her in the past), Kostner herself, or all three of them, but somehow she figured out how to control her movements, control her speed, show an ability to change tempo, and actually take time to really let the music and her skating meld. What has happened in the past few seasons has been incredible and it really changed my opinion and perspective on Kostner. Now, with Akiko Suzuki, Kostner is my favorite skater this past Olympic cycle. That is something I thought would never happen (especially after the 2008 World Championships).

    OT, but regarding the vast majority of Nichol programs being duds. I think it's bound to happen when someone has as many clients as Nichol. Like any choreographer (or artist), over-work can lead to uninspired efforts. However, once you get a muse or a skater who can execute your work, real magic happens. Also, sometimes people go through ruts. We know Nichol sees herself as an artist and likes to think she creates great work for her skaters and, IMO, she's capable of doing it. She may have years where she hasn't produced anything too great, but then she may go through a period where she's producing a lot of great work. It's sort of like movie directors who've been in the game for a long time. Sometimes they go through a period of one bad film after another, and then they get that one great film and get back into the award circuits. People then forget about the bad periods.

    As for Frank Carroll and the straight-line technique . . . well, his skaters have been successful with it. I think Frank knows a lot about skating technique and he certainly knows how COP works. It's admirable how adaptable Frank Carroll has been this late in the game. Also, he may have "failed" being a supportive coach at times, but we have seen him succeed. I think every long-time coach on all levels have had times where it seems they made the wrong decision to be supportive or "hard". It's part of the job, and sometimes people have lapses in judgment. Sometimes skaters work better with certain types of coaches, and maybe Gracie wants to tow a harder line with Frank. We know Mirai probably didn't do well with it, but we know Carroll has had successes with skaters so some skaters thrive in that environment.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 09-15-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Not only that Carolina is over 8 years older then Gracie and didn't become a complete skater until she was like 24 years old. Gracie has time.
    Carolina had the advantage that she was skating in a country in which she had very little, if any, competition. Gracie does not have that advantage. She will soon have other skaters nipping at her heels and she needs to bring it together asap. Carolina didn't have that kind of pressure. Even when she backslid she knew she would probably be top dog in Italy.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Carolina had the advantage that she was skating in a country in which she had very little, if any, competition. Gracie does not have that advantage. She will soon have other skaters nipping at her heels and she needs to bring it together asap. Carolina didn't have that kind of pressure. Even when she backslid she knew she would probably be top dog in Italy.
    True. Kostner after her disasters at Worlds and the Olympics in 2009-2010 would have been done if she was skating for the US or Japan.

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    Posted on IFS' FB page tonight: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=278550292537
    USFS just released this statement from Gracie Gold re her coaching change:

    “I ended my professional relationship with coach Alex Ouriashev three weeks ago. Since then, I have continued my training with Oleg Epstein and Marina Zoueva in Canton, Mich. Scott Brown and Marina came with me to the 2013 U.S. International Classic.

    "Next week I will work with Frank Carroll in Los Angeles. I plan to announce my full coaching team soon.”
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  13. #73
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    Gracie needs to get this coaching situation figured really quickly. This is not good not having a coach in an Olympic year and the season is already started. I'm not sure what she's thinking but the timing is horrible.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Those are great examples. I too tend to value loyalty. I don't exactly fault skaters for switching coaches, due to various reasons, but it is still good to see a stable student-teacher relationship.

    Other examples:

    Brian Orser and Ushi Kesler? (not sure about this one)
    It's Brian Orser and Doug Leigh. Uschi Keszler was his choreographer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Sale & Pelletier switched coaches at the start of the 2002 season. It didn't hurt them.
    They went back to Jamie's old coach -- a familiar face for them, if you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post

    My prediction is that Gracie will win a Olympic medal of some color if she is willing to leave Max Aaron for Fedor Andreev.
    I don't think Meryl would be too pleased with Fedor if such a thing were to happen.

  15. #75

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    Icenetwork article: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2013/09/14/60651560

    Says she will train w/ Frank for a week and see if it works.

  16. #76
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    Didn't Sarah Hughes win her junior championship under a different head coach? And how long was Baiul really with Galina? Only in skating would 4 years, or so, be considered a long coaching relationship.

  17. #77
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    I don't see how one can compare Gracie to Kostner. Carolina always had great musicality, which I could only assume came from Italian classical music education. Gracie, despite her princess face, is as much a power skater as Rachael Flatt, and her team was mistaken to think they can package her into a beauty skater. She will do so much better with spunky music like her Chicago exhibition program this year. This is a down-to-earth American girl who grew up listening to Taylor Swift and uses "I got to" way too often. How do one believe she would understand Tchaikovsky? Of course musicality can be drilled into a skater, but I'm guessing Mirai's Carmen was as good as drilling could get.

    That being said, Gracie Gold is still going to make the Olympics, and she is never going to be a well-rounded beauty skater with high PCS. So yes, she needs all the politiking power from a coach she can get.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    True. Kostner after her disasters at Worlds and the Olympics in 2009-2010 would have been done if she was skating for the US or Japan.
    Not if Carolina changed her last name to Czisny.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Phillip Mills? Look what he did for Ashley.
    And Phillips Mills isn't doing Wagner's choreography anymore, so he's free.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRocks View Post

    I don't think Meryl would be too pleased with Fedor if such a thing were to happen.
    Meryl has already fulfilled her duties to the Zuoeva Fedoration in the grand tradition of Tanith and Tessa. Now Gracie must do so, if she wants a medal.

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