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  1. #1

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    Gracie To Frank Carroll?

    Looks like we have some semi-official confirmation from Phil Hersh that Gracie is moving out to California to be coached by Frank Carroll. TSL (The Skating Lesson) has been hinting about this for about a week too. I thought I would start a thread where we could discuss the move.



    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil 31m
    Source just confirmed that @GraceEGold is going to join Frank Carroll. Odd time for coach switch. Oly year panic?
    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil 29m
    Waiting to hear from Frank Carroll, but source tells me they want some in-person sessions before making it @GraceEGold switch official
    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil 10m
    @GraceEGold ex-coach Alex Ouriashev just texted me: "I am very shocked and disappointed in her decision."
    As a fan of Gracie's I'm thrilled, not just for this year but for the future. I don't think it's Olympic year panic as she has another 4 years ahead of her IMO. It might have been better had she switched a few months ago but what is done is done. I hope Frank gets Lori to give her some new programs. Whatever she can come up with has to better than the current programs Gracie has.

  2. #2
    Port de bras!!!
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    Frank won't stand for the windmilling, I hope. ITA about Gracie's current programs.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Uprooting her life and moving across the country 4-5 months before the Olympics with the competitive season already underway is just going to add to the Olympic year pressure she'll already be feeling. Very odd timing.

    I could see getting new programs at this point. But an entire life change right now is quite a risk. She's barely 18 and a sudden move can't be easy on her family (whether or not any of them choose to go with her). It sounds like quite a stressful situation.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 09-14-2013 at 03:39 AM.

  4. #4

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    As much as I respect Frank, I really thought that Gracie with Alexander Ouriashev was just right for Sochi.

    . . . and deep down inside I wanted Mirai to return to Frank.

    . . . but there are worse things. Frank can make good skaters, like Gracie, better.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Frank won't stand for the windmilling, I hope. ITA about Gracie's current programs.
    But is Ouriashev to blame for the windmilling, or Oleg Epstein?

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    I didn't think Gracie's problem lied in her coaching, but in her choice of choreographers.

  7. #7
    Left in the Kiss-n-Cry
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    What confuses me most about this move is that Frank is likely to retire after this year, and then what is Gracie going to do?
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

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    ^
    I get the feeling Frank won't be retiring if he is taking Gracie on as a student.

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    Well Gracie should talk to Ashley about unexpected surprises.

    Frank already said he was only staying this year because of Dennis Ten and Evan Lysacek.
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

  10. #10

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    I think Frank will definitely be good for her. She is an extraordinary athlete, and I see her working very hard toward being musical, but it really isn't there yet. Looking forward to Gold&Carroll vs Wagner&Nicks

    Is Scott Brown coming along for the ride?

    I understand why these changes happen, still I'm crushed for her coach Ouriashev. He seemed so invested in her success.

  11. #11

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    Excellent choice for what she needs, but the timing is rough.
    Who prompted the move? USFS or Gracie's people? Would love to have been at the table when someone floated the idea, "Hey, let's check in with Frank Carroll, you know, Michele Kwan's old coach. I bet he could really work wonders."

    Flippant comment aside this is not an easy change to implement -particularly this close to Olympics.
    Is sister Carly part of the deal (at least at some level)?
    I agree that perhaps a stronger choreographer on hand may have smoothed out many of the glaring faults, but long term (assuming Frank is looking to coach long term), Frank is her best option.
    This type of drama just adds to they Olympic season hype! Fun, fun. Ahhh, skating, never dull :-)!!!!!

  12. #12
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    I personally don't consider Frank Carroll a miracle worker, nor any coach for that matter, it's the SKATER that does all the hard work and has the mind of a champion. Imho it never mattered who his/her coach was/is, some skaters are just meant to be champions no matter what, though it does help to have a very influencial coach for political reasons.

    And I have to say I personally give two thumbs up to those skaters that *never* left their coach, and they both ascended the ladder of success together. Some examples:

    Evgeni Plushenko and Alexei Mishin
    Brian Boitano and Linda Leaver
    Katarina Witt and Jutta Muller
    Kristi Yamaguchi and Christy Ness
    Oksana Baiul and Galina Zmievskaya
    Sarah Hughes and Robin Wagner


    Jmho.

  13. #13

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    I wish Gracie could have left her coach in a way that didn't cause the coach to tell Phil Hersh that he's "shocked and disappointed." No doubt he is, but wasn't there a way to do it so that he didn't feel the need to speak publicly? I'm sure it's difficult, like breaking up. But he did bring her this far and was owed more than a "I don't want to work with you anymore." As for Gracie's decision at this point in the season, she isn't going to win the Olympics this year anyway, so why not if she thinks it will help. She definitely needs help, but it's unclear whether going to Carroll will do it for her. It didn't help Mirai.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    I wish Gracie could have left her coach in a way that didn't cause the coach to tell Phil Hersh that he's "shocked and disappointed." No doubt he is, but wasn't there a way to do it so that he didn't feel the need to speak publicly? I'm sure it's difficult, like breaking up. But he did bring her this far and was owed more than a "I don't want to work with you anymore." As for Gracie's decision at this point in the season, she isn't going to win the Olympics this year anyway, so why not if she thinks it will help. She definitely needs help, but it's unclear whether going to Carroll will do it for her. It didn't help Mirai.
    It helped Mirai get to the Olympics and do very well there, even if the success was short-term. I'm wondering, does Gracie maybe plan NOT to continue until 2018 and just want to go to the Olympics this season, medal there, and be done with the sport (for college, I heard she wants to be an orthodontist, that's a lot of school), and if so, she thinks the only way she has a chance to medal is by running to Frank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    It helped Mirai get to the Olympics and do very well there, even if the success was short-term. I'm wondering, does Gracie maybe plan NOT to continue until 2018 and just want to go to the Olympics this season, medal there, and be done with the sport (for college, I heard she wants to be an orthodontist, that's a lot of school), and if so, she thinks the only way she has a chance to medal is by running to Frank?
    I think Team Gracie wants to rule the world. She's not stepping away at 18.

  16. #16
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    I think Cohen and Chan were hoping for an Olympic medal and out for their first Olympics. It doesn't always work out that way.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #17
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    This move baffles me. You don't change coaches as the season is just starting. Not sure what Gracie is thinking but it's going to be even more pressure on her now working with a new coach. She better be careful or she might find herself not even on the Olympic team.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    I personally don't consider Frank Carroll a miracle worker, nor any coach for that matter, it's the SKATER that does all the hard work and has the mind of a champion. Imho it never mattered who his/her coach was/is, some skaters are just meant to be champions no matter what, though it does help to have a very influencial coach for political reasons.

    And I have to say I personally give two thumbs up to those skaters that *never* left their coach, and they both ascended the ladder of success together. Some examples:

    Evgeni Plushenko and Alexei Mishin
    Brian Boitano and Linda Leaver
    Katarina Witt and Jutta Muller
    Kristi Yamaguchi and Christy Ness
    Oksana Baiul and Galina Zmievskaya
    Sarah Hughes and Robin Wagner


    Jmho.
    Those are great examples. I too tend to value loyalty. I don't exactly fault skaters for switching coaches, due to various reasons, but it is still good to see a stable student-teacher relationship.

    Other examples:

    Tamara Moskvina and most of her pairs
    Irina Slutskaya and Zhana Gramova (sp?)
    Brian Orser and Ushi Kesler? (not sure about this one)
    Viktor Petrenko and Galina Z.

  19. #19
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    Wait, Frank won't stand for windmilling? Evan powers several small, Dutch communities with the power of his arms.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    This move baffles me. You don't change coaches as the season is just starting. Not sure what Gracie is thinking but it's going to be even more pressure on her now working with a new coach. She better be careful or she might find herself not even on the Olympic team.
    Sale & Pelletier switched coaches at the start of the 2002 season. It didn't hurt them.

    Leaving Frank at the start of the 2002 Olympic season hurt Michelle because she tried to do it on her own, without a coach.

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