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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianFSFan View Post
    Meh. To each, their own. On last thread, I did comment on something missing from V/M's SD. Not entirely but in the section where Muskrat Ramble was playing. Yes, it was rough in some places. But it is to be expected at early stages of the program development. However, the choreography is far from bland. I felt they understood the music very well and it showed (in their body movement and expressions). Can't wait see those improvements soon! Finlandia!


    Hmmm...the assumption on judges preferring D/W is debatable. If so, it would have happened every season they competed. All I can see from last season is that judges (seem to) prefer strongly traditional/conservative ideals of ice dancing (re:Italian's Carmen, D/W's Giselle). For that reason, I agree with you that V/M's FD never seem to get the scores it deserved. All we can hope for for this (new) season is NOT a repeat of last season...AND that both V/M's programs will be judged fairly and be very well received/highly favorable to the judges' palate this time.
    I think V/M need to work on the last part of their SD but the difference Imo between V/M and D/W's programs is that D/W had an extra month of training. When we first saw V/M's SD, it was a work in progress hence the recyled lift (which thank god they changed) and the recycled costumes.

  2. #42
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    How do you know they changed the lift in SD?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    I think V/M need to work on the last part of their SD but the difference Imo between V/M and D/W's programs is that D/W had an extra month of training. When we first saw V/M's SD, it was a work in progress hence the recyled lift (which thank god they changed) and the recycled costumes.
    Cool Personally, their first outing was still impressive (and most important, memorable) given the short time it was choreographed. Hurrah for Jean MG's contribution! Oh, was there a tweet on lift change?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    How do you know they changed the lift in SD?
    I have the same question. How do you know this?

  5. #45
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    One more thing I want to unload haha sorry bare with me here...

    Sometimes I read comments like "I can't believe how far they have come" and I actually don't think this is an appropriate compliment to T/S anymore. They are there already. I mean technically they can always improve because they are not getting level 4s and +3s across the board, but as ice dancers the are textbook. This may sound like a nutcase uber talking, but you wouldn't watch a Meryl Streep movie and say "wow I can't believe how much she has grown as an actor"... not in this stage of the game.

    To elaborate, you can pay to get all the world class choreographers and dancers to work with you, but in the end if you don't "dance" you are just doing the choreography. Wave your arm here, lift your legs at that angle here, and give a grimace at this point of the music. I very very rarely see T/S go through the motions of the choreography. They live and breath the dance routine and never rely on using the music to carry them through.

    Even with the warhorse that was Carmen last season, they lift it to their own level and achieved their goal of creating something magical. I bet years later when someone put up a poll with "Who best embodied Carmen", Tessa Virtue WON'T win. That's not what their Carmen was about and not what their dance career in this quadrennial was trying to achieve. To me, that program was the emotion of Carmen and Don Jose, they weren't just taking a established piece of music and play a character so many skaters have played. T/S took it to brought it to another interpretative level and not the common way out. The put all of their programs with their dancing brand and I don't see a match in the competition. This is why I will never ever understand and still don't see any sound argument on why they aren't getting the highest PCS across the board.

    :LOL: sorry to bring up something that people probably beaten to death almost six months ago, I guess this is how I'm getting ready for their epic finale .

  6. #46
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  7. #47
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    I saw those pictures and wondered as press was only present for SD´s but I think it´s impossible to say from those that they changed it. You can only have one lift in the SD so they maybe altered it or they could also have been practicing some other lifts?

  8. #48

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    I can't say from this photos is this old or new lift.
    Walei, thanks for posting this! I think it's great, that TS so involved in there programs. And it's great when ice dancers could dance and create there own story. Maybe that's why they try to use not so known and popular music. And when you did something new not everyone will love it and understand, because we all have our own taste.
    And it's so noticeable, when they work with dance teaches.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Sometimes I read comments like "I can't believe how far they have come" and I actually don't think this is an appropriate compliment to T/S anymore. They are there already. I mean technically they can always improve because they are not getting level 4s and +3s across the board, but as ice dancers the are textbook. This may sound like a nutcase uber talking, but you wouldn't watch a Meryl Streep movie and say "wow I can't believe how much she has grown as an actor"... not in this stage of the game.

    To elaborate, you can pay to get all the world class choreographers and dancers to work with you, but in the end if you don't "dance" you are just doing the choreography. Wave your arm here, lift your legs at that angle here, and give a grimace at this point of the music. I very very rarely see T/S go through the motions of the choreography. They live and breath the dance routine and never rely on using the music to carry them through.
    I love this. I was watching the SD again and I think "Dancing Cheek to Cheek" may be my favorite part. They open with some great jazz riffing and doing their elements with confidence, build into the Finnstep, and then it feels like... "we've freaking got this." The third part is so comfortable, like a longtime married couple, still in love, sharing a spontaneous dance. It feels as though it's being choreographed on the spot. You never see the work. It's exactly what ice dancing at the highest level is supposed to be.

  10. #50
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    I just compared the photos to the lift they did in the SD and if you stop it frame by frame (as best I could) I think those picture from HPC show the entrance and exit out of the lift they skated in Quebec.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    One more thing I want to unload haha sorry bare with me here...

    Sometimes I read comments like "I can't believe how far they have come" and I actually don't think this is an appropriate compliment to T/S anymore. They are there already. I mean technically they can always improve because they are not getting level 4s and +3s across the board, but as ice dancers the are textbook. This may sound like a nutcase uber talking, but you wouldn't watch a Meryl Streep movie and say "wow I can't believe how much she has grown as an actor"... not in this stage of the game.
    I get what you're saying, but also, if you go back and compare their skating now to how they were skating in 09-10, you can see how they've improved since then. They were already great in 09-10, but they're even better now.

    As for the levels and GOE's, I think on most occasions these days, it's a reflection of current politics rather than V/M's skating.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I get what you're saying, but also, if you go back and compare their skating now to how they were skating in 09-10, you can see how they've improved since then. They were already great in 09-10, but they're even better now.
    They definitely improved, but I took walei's comment to mean they have already been at the highest level for years... they won the Olympics, after all. They were flawless there. The rest is just gravy, it's what gives them the freedom to experiment and riff. "How far they've come" makes it sound like they needed to improve something fundamental, which is not true IMO... does that make sense?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    One more thing I want to unload haha sorry bare with me here...

    Sometimes I read comments like "I can't believe how far they have come" and I actually don't think this is an appropriate compliment to T/S anymore. They are there already. I mean technically they can always improve because they are not getting level 4s and +3s across the board, but as ice dancers the are textbook. This may sound like a nutcase uber talking, but you wouldn't watch a Meryl Streep movie and say "wow I can't believe how much she has grown as an actor"... not in this stage of the game.
    I've never really thought of it this way, but I agree! People have been venting/ranting a lot lately, so I just want to add one thing: for the love of ice dancing, PLEASE stop talking about if Tessa's legs are okay. When the fans speculate on her health (only to wish her well) it fuels the flames for other less well meaning discussion. Every interview, etc. she has to convince people she's fine. Her condition is completely irrelevant to everyone but her team. If she's not well and decides to keep skating, that's her right. If she is well, yay! We've learned by now that this girl can win gold medals when she can't even walk! What a true champion!! I have incredible respect for her, and I wish people would focus on how freakin amazing she is at what she does and not her condition. This is all.

    (note: rant is directed at no one in particular, just my feelings on the subject!)

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    My thoughts on D/Ws and V/Ms SDs right now is that they both lack that WOW factor that they had with their 2010 ODs. That could be because of the time of year it is, because of the CD being in the SD now, the music, or something else.

  15. #55

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    Maybe its because of pattern dance. Maybe because her best work Zoueva did for 2010 OG? Dont know. I think VM - its soft, lght, musical nuances and pure dancing. So i think this team for people who love more WOW factors not of there cup of tea/

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    They definitely improved, but I took walei's comment to mean they have already been at the highest level for years... they won the Olympics, after all. They were flawless there. The rest is just gravy, it's what gives them the freedom to experiment and riff. "How far they've come" makes it sound like they needed to improve something fundamental, which is not true IMO... does that make sense?
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I've never really thought of it this way, but I agree! People have been venting/ranting a lot lately, so I just want to add one thing: for the love of ice dancing, PLEASE stop talking about if Tessa's legs are okay. When the fans speculate on her health (only to wish her well) it fuels the flames for other less well meaning discussion. Every interview, etc. she has to convince people she's fine. Her condition is completely irrelevant to everyone but her team. If she's not well and decides to keep skating, that's her right. If she is well, yay! We've learned by now that this girl can win gold medals when she can't even walk! What a true champion!! I have incredible respect for her, and I wish people would focus on how freakin amazing she is at what she does and not her condition. This is all.

    (note: rant is directed at no one in particular, just my feelings on the subject!)
    I absolutely agree. There is no reason to believe that her legs are a problem at this point. She had the second surgery. She re-worked her stroking technique. She knows how to manage things. She says she's able to train and compete 100% pain free. There's no need to keep bringing it up over and over again.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    My thoughts on D/Ws and V/Ms SDs right now is that they both lack that WOW factor that they had with their 2010 ODs. That could be because of the time of year it is, because of the CD being in the SD now, the music, or something else.
    I was pretty wow'd by V/M's SD. That is one sublime routine. Perhaps when you see it from a better-quality video, you'll be more wow'd. I know with programs from other skaters in the past, sometimes the camera angle can make a difference. Although I'm very grateful that we had a feed from that competition, the video quality and camera angles weren't great.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    My thoughts on D/Ws and V/Ms SDs right now is that they both lack that WOW factor that they had with their 2010 ODs. That could be because of the time of year it is, because of the CD being in the SD now, the music, or something else.
    I agree with what your saying a bit but i think its the CD for this year that's doing that. The finnstep is not a dance to bring excitement, its much more classy of a dance. Even in 2010 the tango romantica was a passionate CD so there was more wow even if it was simply a compulsory routine. Having said that, the only thing i can think of when i watch V/M is butter lol. They are so smooth it blows my mind and i could watch them glide on ice all day. They have such finesse and quality its amazing. I only wish they would change their rotational lift at the end. If they want to recycle, they have so many lifts to reuse that could get them levels yet still be more part of the program.

  19. #59
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    As a quickstep/foxtrot combo, V&M's dance is great. If I don't like it as much as their 2010 OD that's because I don't like those rhythms as much as flamenco. 2010 was a weird year because the folk theme was so different. There was room there for huge variety, it was like a mini-FD, so there was more room for creativity. I wouldn't compare this year's dance to those, I'd compare it to the ODs in 2009, 2005, 2001, and 1995... and it holds up very well in that context, IMO. G&P's quickstep from 1995 is one of my all time faves, and I love many of the dances from 2001 (especially Winkler & Lohse), but the post CoP stuff was kind of meh (V&M's own dances from 2005 and 2009 stand out the most and I wasn't even a huge fan then).

  20. #60
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    I wish they had done the Tango for the CD in the SD this season. Or something latin. I'm not a huge fan of quick steps.

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