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  1. #481
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    Thanks for the YouTube link! Not ideal scoring...looked over the scoring sheet PDF. still scratching my head with one with 7pts for interpretation/timing. Perhaps, not ending on time? Plus bobbles? *shoulder shrug*

    However, I agree with Golightly's post. I feel it's better to have been judged with harder panel with lower scores equally to all teams in the beginning and continue to climb as the season go on, rather than start high (then hear all arguments it being inflated). I don't see them being shaky or nervous at all. Smoother in flow, good speed and more pep in pattern seq. Yes, there are obvious (though small mistakes). Would love to see that minor detail with hands (as per zilam98's earlier post) there though...I still stand by my own opinion, liking their new lift but not final pose. : I noticed they changed to do two face-to-face side heel kick? , instead of one outer then facing, after pattern seq. - I liked it when first saw the Quebec vid - makes it smoother in the end somehow. All in all, I really enjoyed their routine this second time. So looking forward to their FD!

    Ps. Thank you, Bournekraatzfan, for your kind wish Yes, I did...all stuffed up with my fav dim sum...and all the while thinking how V/M faired. Finally, caught up after (and reading all these posts)

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Look at Judge 3's scores, though LOL. That one and Judge 6's.
    I mean, really, what competition were 3 and 6 watching?! Lol that's just silly! 7?! Anyway...serious question here. When they announce judges as # whatever at the beginning of the comp do the judges appear as that number on the score sheet? (I'm thinking they don't but I'm not quite sure!)

  3. #483
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    After watching it you can see that Scott makes a little error at the end of the finnstep, so maybe that is a contributing factor.

    I don't know if it's in evidence in the marking here and i"m not using this competition as an example, but I think that in some cases the judges have used the PCC scores to arrange things to their liking. A small adjustment here and there and the math adds up. They are just being more creative in doing it, so that worries me down the line. Call me pessimistic, but some of the marks just boggle my mind.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I mean, really, what competition were 3 and 6 watching?! Lol that's just silly! 7?! Anyway...serious question here. When they announce judges as # whatever at the beginning of the comp do the judges appear as that number on the score sheet? (I'm thinking they don't but I'm not quite sure!)
    No. It's not even the same judge all the way down the sheet.

  5. #485
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    They were definitely nervous today during the competition so it wasn't their best skate..The practice in the morning was flawless, they were enjoying skating so much and just oozed charisma! Frankly, everyone else looked weak after them. They just have the it-factor in spades. And I just can't comprehend how they always find moments to connect with each other while doing something incredibly difficult. At the end of one of their rotational lifts in the FD Scott is spinning Tessa around like crazy and still they manage to take eye contact and stare at each other.

    Still have great expectations for tomorrow! I think they'll be more relaxed for sure.

  6. #486

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    I feel a lot better now though still upset. I just feel like there's a double standard when it comes to Tessa and Scott. Other teams can make mistakes and get the benefit of the doubt or whatever and when it come to them they get hammered; they have to be perfect all the time and already they were expected to skate in Finlandia like they've been skating the entire season. Just scared after last season the judges wouldn't score them fairly.

    Anyways I am excited that I'm going Nats!! Just last week I wasn't even sure it was going to happen then everything fell into place this week. So exciting, but I'm terrified of the cold that I'm going to face in Ottawa.

    Musketeer, marikat, and ilovenyc I hope you guys enjoy the rest of the competition.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    No. It's not even the same judge all the way down the sheet.
    Thanks! I've never read the protocols before last season, so I'm still learning! Btw I don't like that at all. I remember the "less federation pressure" argument but the glaring issue is a lack of accountability. Oh well, no use complaining! Bring on that free dance!

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    I mean, really, what competition were 3 and 6 watching?! Lol that's just silly! 7?! Anyway...serious question here. When they announce judges as # whatever at the beginning of the comp do the judges appear as that number on the score sheet? (I'm thinking they don't but I'm not quite sure!)
    No, never. They always, always, always randomize them. It's the anonymity that I find so grating in this sport.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv View Post
    After watching it you can see that Scott makes a little error at the end of the finnstep, so maybe that is a contributing factor.

    I don't know if it's in evidence in the marking here and i"m not using this competition as an example, but I think that in some cases the judges have used the PCC scores to arrange things to their liking. A small adjustment here and there and the math adds up. They are just being more creative in doing it, so that worries me down the line. Call me pessimistic, but some of the marks just boggle my mind.
    I really, really hate to think that "fixing" is in ... Since I really, really want to enjoy this season like I did with past seasons with V/M's programs (preOlympics 2010 up to 2011) without this speculation running in my head. I'd like to think that it's a one off and beginning of season scoring....Yes, yes scoring is still subjective to a degree. But I'd also like to think positively that these judges are/will be doing their jobs responsibly and ethically.

  10. #490
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    I really don't think these results are fixed. What would be the advantage to 'fixing' a competition where they still win. This gives them feedback and a chance to fix the low areas- meaning they'll come back better for future competitions. If the judges wanted to mess them up, it wouldn't make sense to score them low until a competition mattered.

  11. #491

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    At this competition all teams got low levels for pattern dance.
    And judges see something, because they gave level 2 for.
    SS to CB

  12. #492

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    But it does "help" to score them low even if they win as that brings their marks down to within reach of teams below. We actually saw this kind of politicking in the run up to the last Olympics. At that time remember Tessa and Scott were considered to be more of a threat to the Russians than were Meryl and Charlie and certain judges marked accordingly. It turns out their teams ended up being bested by both the young teams in the end so it didn't work, but it was amusing how easy it was to predict the judging at any given competition based on which countries had judges in the mix and who had a vested interest in having one team place over the other. I'm not including the US and Canadian judges in this as they cancelled each other out

  13. #493
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    My understanding was that a judge who gives a score out of line with the other judges is required to give a detailed explanation to the head of the panel. The highs and lows are still thrown out anyway. I also recall that the reasons given for the anonymity were to limit bribes and favours as compliance with a bribe or favour could not be proved to the one who offered it, and to limit the personal abuse (and abuse of a nation) which used to be staggering.

  14. #494

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    The abuse by some is still there, it's just sneakier...

  15. #495
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    No one is talking about fixed scores. The panel was strict, that is all. I mean, hello? 7? 8.25s? But that doesn't mean there was fixing.

  16. #496
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    I'm sure, and oh yes, and solving one problem usually leads to another is all aspects of life. In skating for instance, a group led by Joubert and Plushy and many others, protested that the quads were not being rewarded enough, and fewer skaters were trying them for awhile. The current points - which reward rotations in the air even when the jump isn't landed cleanly, leads to all the bitter criticism of skaters who can fall and still win. But it also has led to almost everybody doing quads..

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    No one is talking about fixed scores. The panel was strict, that is all. I mean, hello? 7? 8.25s? But that doesn't mean there was fixing.
    I was responding based on this
    Quote Originally Posted by AsianFSFan View Post
    I really, really hate to think that "fixing" is in ...
    So clearly the idea of fixing scores is being discussed, although in the "that probably isn't what is happening" sense.

  18. #498

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    Guys, this wasn't there best skating, they have mistakes. So if we are talking about there marks, I think it's fair for them at this point. Look like judges like there SS.
    It's all if we are talking about fair.judging.
    And I could understand judges, who give higher marks to the team, who never have mistakes.
    This competition have positive things. They looked strong in practice. They.show.such a beautiful step sequence, they began it like one person. They had good first part of the pattern.
    They show great artistic skills, if you will look at photos. So a lot of work to do, but this was the first step. And yes, they show such a great musicality.

    Will see, what they will show in FD.

  19. #499

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    No, never. They always, always, always randomize them. It's the anonymity that I find so grating in this sport.
    Is that true for this comp though? I know it's randomized for GP events and ISU championships, but I didn't think Sr Bs were like that too.

  20. #500
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    Reading the protocols is actually encouraging. I like to believe that they will clean it up come November. Lots of points left on the ice, which isn't uncommon for Virtue and Moir when they begin the season. Even with the mistakes, the skate was, in a way, more huge (huger? help? LOL) than the one last month.

    The judges liked the step sequence. I was laughing a bit at this because they were SO close I thought they were going to run into each other, but they have so much control that they can manage to produce something great out of tricky situations. A liiittle bit more distance next time should get them that level 4, because it truly was impeccable, until they ran out of space at the end.

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