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  1. #1

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    Junior world champs that did not win a senior world medal/did not make the world team

    Junior world champs that did not make the senior worlds team for their country:

    Sydney Vogel
    Yukina Ota
    Elena Ivanova
    Kristina Oblasova
    Ann Patrice McDonough (not sure about her)
    Derrick Delmore
    Krestianinova-Torchinski
    Sharutenko-Naumkin
    Vlassova-Meekins
    Ulanova-Stifounin


    Junior world champs that did not win a senior worlds medal:

    Andrei Griazev
    Dmitri Dmitrenko
    Ilia Klimkin
    Daria Timoshenko
    Jenny Kirk
    Rachael Flatt
    Adam Rippon
    Alexander Shubin
    Nobunari Oda
    Steven Carriere
    Caroline Zhang (not sure if she made the world team)
    Hartsell/Hartsell
    Joseph/Butler
    Yamaguchi/Galindo

    It just goes to show that success at the Junior Worlds does not promise success at the senior worlds.

    The flip side of this is that some junior world champions did have stellar careers at the senior level (e.g. Boitano, Yagudin, Plushenko, Kulik, Mao Asada, Yu na Kim, G&G, and to some extent Michael Weiss)

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Junior world champs that did not make the senior worlds team for their country:
    Ann Patrice McDonough (not sure about her)
    . . . . . .
    Caroline Zhang (not sure if she made the world team)
    Correct; neither of these ladies made it to senior worlds (though I suppose Caroline still could...).
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  3. #3
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    It's funny, a lot of the ones who have major success as juniors end up only being so-so seniors, while a lot of skaters who were so-so juniors experience a great deal of success as seniors.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Junior world champs that did not make the senior worlds team for their country
    a few more:

    Suzie Brasher
    Carolyn Skoczen
    Jill Sawyer
    Karin Hendschke
    Tatiana Andreeva
    Cindy Bortz
    Jessica Mills
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  5. #5

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    There are really a lot...some of my list have made the team but never won a medal.

    Ksenia Krasilnikova/Konstantin Bezmaternikh
    Lubov Iliushechkina/Nodari Maisuradze
    Vladimir Petrenko
    Vasili Eremenko
    Evgeni Pliuta
    Derrick Delmore
    Natalia Gorbenko
    Laetitia Hubert
    Victoria Maxiuta/Vladislav Zhovnirski
    Julia Obertas/Dmitri Palamarchuk
    Elena Riabchuk/Stanislav Zakharov
    Olga Sharutenko/Dmitri Naumkin
    Natalia Romaniuta/Daniil Barantsev
    Elena Romanovskaya/Alexander Grachev
    Morgan Matthews/Maxim Zavozin
    ...to be continued...
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The flip side of this is that some junior world champions did have stellar careers at the senior level (e.g. Boitano, Yagudin, Plushenko, Kulik, Mao Asada, Yu na Kim, G&G, and to some extent Michael Weiss)
    Aliona Savchenko, too.

    But to me the flip side is skaters who didn't accomplish much at the junior level but did very well as seniors. Brian Joubert, Jeffrey Buttle, Robin Szolkowy and Pechalat/Bourzat all come to mind, and to a lesser extent Stephane Lambiel. IIRC Joubert had never even medalled internationally before he won the bronze at 2002 Euros.

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    And of course there is someone like virtue and moir who have won it all....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    But to me the flip side is skaters who didn't accomplish much at the junior level but did very well as seniors. Brian Joubert, Jeffrey Buttle, Robin Szolkowy and Pechalat/Bourzat all come to mind, and to a lesser extent Stephane Lambiel. IIRC Joubert had never even medalled internationally before he won the bronze at 2002 Euros.
    A lot of these skaters turned senior quite young - Joubert, Lambiel, Fernandez were all competing as seniors by the time they were 17 so perhaps the opportunity to do well in juniors wasn't really there, because by the time they were getting the scores that would put them in contention, their focus was already elsewhere. And on the flip side, there are those like Rippon or Aldridge/Eaton, who have multiple JW medals, but stayed junior a lot longer than others of their age - understandably of course, as they would be unlikely to get the same international opportunities had they turned senior after their first junior successes, given the depth of US skating.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    A lot of these skaters turned senior quite young - Joubert, Lambiel, Fernandez were all competing as seniors by the time they were 17 so perhaps the opportunity to do well in juniors wasn't really there, because by the time they were getting the scores that would put them in contention, their focus was already elsewhere.
    That's true, but so did at least some of the people mentioned as junior successes. Moving up to senior at 17 isn't all that unusual - I think it's the ladies who tend to move up younger, but several of the men who did well as juniors moved up at age 17 or even younger (e.g. Hanyu, Kozuka, Takahashi, Weir) and sometimes it took them a while to get their bearings at that level. To me it's pretty impressive to see skaters who were able to go far at the senior level without any real junior success, especially those who did so almost right off the bat.

    Of course, P/B, Szolkowy and Buttle all aged out of juniors rather than moving up early.

    I forgot to mention Fernandez but he's a good example; he certainly faced an uphill struggle, moving up to senior skating with no name recognition and coming from a non-skating country.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Junior world champs that did not win a senior worlds medal:
    add Nowak/Kolasiński to the list

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    A few thoughts:

    • Nobunari Oda has only himself to blame that he never medaled at Senior Worlds. If he hadn't tacked a double toe loop on at the end of his triple flip in the Free Skate, he would have finished third in 2006.
    • Some of the others, like Elena Ivanova and Stephen Carriere, probably were never going to develop what it takes to win a medal at Senior Worlds; they just happened to be better than anyone else at Junior Worlds.
    • Kristi Yamaguchi and Rudy Galindo did win medals at Senior Worlds, just not as a pair.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    [*]Kristi Yamaguchi and Rudy Galindo did win medals at Senior Worlds, just not as a pair.[/LIST]
    Heh. You could say the same of, e.g., Maria Petrova and Anton Sikharulidze, but they did win their world medals as pair skaters.

    But Yamaguchi and Galindo each won the junior singles title as well, so it's not as if they switched disciplines to achieve senior success -- they just narrowed their focus.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    There are really a lot...some of my list have made the team but never won a medal.

    Ksenia Krasilnikova/Konstantin Bezmaternikh
    Lubov Iliushechkina/Nodari Maisuradze
    Vladimir Petrenko
    Vasili Eremenko
    Evgeni Pliuta
    Derrick DelmoreNatalia Gorbenko
    Laetitia HubertVictoria Maxiuta/Vladislav Zhovnirski
    Julia Obertas/Dmitri Palamarchuk
    Elena Riabchuk/Stanislav Zakharov
    Olga Sharutenko/Dmitri Naumkin
    Natalia Romaniuta/Daniil Barantsev
    Elena Romanovskaya/Alexander Grachev
    Morgan Matthews/Maxim Zavozin
    ...to be continued...

    Delmore and Hubert are listed in the OP.

    I had noticed that I&M had not made the world team, also Krasilnikova-Bezmaternik. Just forgot to add them.

    Some of the pairs/ice dance teams won as juniors then, teamed up with another partner. I skipped most of those. There are quite a few. Most notable: Obertas, who had two other partners as senior.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Aliona Savchenko, too.

    But to me the flip side is skaters who didn't accomplish much at the junior level but did very well as seniors. Brian Joubert, Jeffrey Buttle, Robin Szolkowy and Pechalat/Bourzat all come to mind, and to a lesser extent Stephane Lambiel. IIRC Joubert had never even medalled internationally before he won the bronze at 2002 Euros.
    I didn't mention Aliona because she has had a LOT of success with her current partner, but theoretically she should be on the list, with her junior partner.

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    Also Kanako Murakami, who was Junior champ in 2010 and moved up to senior as soon as reached the age requirements, has never medaled at Worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Junior world champs that did not win a senior worlds medal:

    Andrei Griazev
    Dmitri Dmitrenko
    Ilia Klimkin
    Daria Timoshenko
    Jenny Kirk
    Rachael Flatt
    Adam Rippon
    Alexander Shubin
    Nobunari Oda
    Steven Carriere
    Caroline Zhang (not sure if she made the world team)
    Hartsell/Hartsell
    Joseph/Butler
    Yamaguchi/Galindo
    I am sure the list is alot longer than that. Most World Junior Champions dont win a Worlds medal. Some I can already think of are Natalia Gorbenko, Tatiana Andreeva, Simone Koch, Jill Sawyer, Kumiko Kowai, Nowak & Kolwaski the Polish dance team who had a name something like that, the Latvian team who won the 92 World Juniors, and the one who won the 93 World over Maria Petrova and Anton, Dennis Coi, Scott Williams, Mark Cockerall. I think most of those didnt even make a World team as well.

  17. #17
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    Scott Williams was on the US World team twice ('85-'86 & '86-'87). Mark Cockerell was on the 1984 US Olympic team I believe.

  18. #18
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    Poor Scott, be on 3 World teams but miss Olympic team. Did he skate bad at 88 Nationals?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathil View Post
    Also Kanako Murakami, who was Junior champ in 2010 and moved up to senior as soon as reached the age requirements, has never medaled at Worlds.
    She has a chance in 2014 and later.

  20. #20
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    Great topic. There have been have been 36 World Junior mens champions. Only two time winners- Adam Rippon and Viktor Petrenko. There have been 38 World Junior lady champions, and no two time winners. There have been 28 World Junior pair champions and that includes 6 two time winners and 2 three time winners. There have been 32 World junior dance champions and that includes one three time winner and four two time winners.

    Out of those the following have never won a World medal and the bolded ones have never even made a World team:


    Pairs

    1976- Baier & Cowan, Canada
    1977- France & Mills, Canada
    1979- Pershina & Akbarov, Soviet Union
    1982 and 1983- Avstriskaia & Kvashnin, Soviet Union (competed at 84 Olympics for Soviet Union but never a Worlds, Pershina & Akbarov who competed at the 81-84 Worlds were left off the Olympic team in favor of them)
    1984- Landgraf & Steuer, East Germany (competed at Worlds together but no medals, but he would go on to future medals with Mandy Woetzel)
    1986 and 1987- Leonova & Krasnitski, Soviet Union
    1988- Yamaguchi & Galindo, United Stated
    1989- Chernyshova & Sukhanov, Soviet Union
    1990 to 1992- Krestianinova & Torchinski, Soviet Union
    1993- Korshunova & Saveliev, Russia
    1994 and 1995- Petrova & Sikharulidze, Russia (competed at Worlds together in 94 and 95, but no medals, but future medals with different partner)
    1996- Maxiuta & Zhovnirski, Russia
    1997- Harsell & Hartsell, United States
    1988 and 1999- Obertas & Palamarchuk, Ukraine
    2000- Savchenko & Morozov, Ukraine
    2002- Riabchuk & Zakarov, Russia
    2004- Shestakova & Lebedev, Russia
    2005- Mukhortova & Trankov, Russia (competed at Worlds and Olympics together but no medals, but he went on to future medals with new partner)
    2006- Vlassov & Meekins, United States
    2007- McLaughlin & Brubaker, United States
    2008- Krasilnikova & Bezmaternikh, Russia (certain as they have split)
    2009- Iliushechkina & Maisuradze, Russia (certain as they have split)
    2013- Denney & Frazier (too soon to tell anything so discount them)

    So among pairs that makes excluding Denney & Frazier, 22 pairs out of 27 who never won a World medal, and 11 out of 27 who never even made a World team.



    Dance:

    1976: Winter & Slater, Great Britian (he would compete at future Worlds and Olympics but with another partner)
    1977: Sessions & Reed, Great Britian (she would compete at future Worlds and Olympics but with another partner)
    1978 and 1979: Durasova & Ponomarenko, Soviet Union (he would go on to become a legend, but with another partner, with Durasova they never even made it to a Worlds)
    1980 and 1981: Batanova & Soloviev, Soviet Union
    1982: Annenko & Karkachev, Soviet Union (she would compete at future Worlds and Olympics with Stretenski)
    1983: Gladkova & Shpilband, Soviet Union (he would go on to an amazing future as a coach
    1984 to 1986: Krykanova & Platov, Soviet Union (he would go on to a legendary career with Gritschuk)
    1987: Melnichenko & Kaskova, Soviet Union
    1988: Gritschuk & Chichkov, Soviet Union (she would go on to an amazing with Platov)
    1989: Kirkhmaier & Lagutin, Soviet Union
    1990 and 1992: Anissina & Averbuhk, Soviet Union (would never compete at a Worlds together but would go onto become World Champions and battle for the 2002 Olympic Gold with their new partners)
    1991: Stergiadu & Razguliaiev, Lativa
    1993: Svirina & Sakhnovski, Russia (would never compete at a Worlds together but he would be a future World medalist with Galit Chait)
    1994: Nowak & Kolasinski, Poland
    1995: Sharutenko & Naumkin, Russia
    1996: Davydova & Kostomarov, Russia (would never compete at w Worlds together but would be a future Olympic and World Champion with Navka)
    1997: Ulanova & Stifounin, Russia (he would compete at a future Worlds with a French partner for France)
    1998: Joseph & Butler, United States
    1999: Silverstein & Pekarek, United States
    2000 and 2001: Romaniuta & Barantsev, Russia (their only appearance at Worlds was in 1999, before their World Junior titles)
    2004: Romanovskaya & Grachev, Russia
    2005: Mathews & Zavozin, United States (he would compete at future Worlds and Olympics with a new partner for Hungary)
    2008: Samuelson & Bates (already split)
    2009: Chock & Zuerlein (already split)
    2010: Ilinykh & Katsalapov (too early to tell)
    2011: Monko & Khaliavan (too early to tell)
    2012: Sinitsina & Zhiganshin (too early to tell)
    2013: Stepanova & Bukin (too early to tell)

    So excluding the last 4 teams who are still in the midst of their careers out of 28 teams we have 24 who never won a World medal together and 16 who never made a World team together.

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