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  1. #141

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    I never hope for anyone to fall or slip, but it anyone is, then I really hope it's not P/I.
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  2. #142

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    I second that - clarie.
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  3. #143

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    Congratulations to Kharis Ralph/Asher Hill on establishing new ISU personal bests in the short dance, free dance and overall at the 4CC competition.

    Their skating there moved them up to 28th on the current season's best listing. They will likely move down a bit after the Olympic and World scores are added, so that probably won't be enough to get them on the Grand Prix circuit. If that happens, I hope that Skate Canada will continue to send them to Senior B events (as they did this season with assignments to Coupe de Nice and NRW), since IMO they are continuing to improve and could make the Grand Prix circuit with one more season of continued development.

    However, they once again did not make the short dance technical minimum for Worlds, missing it by 1.79 points, so they cannot be sent to Worlds if a spot were to open up there. Orford/Williams are in the same position, having missed the technical minimum by 0.78 points.

    Hopefully that won't matter, of course, because even if Virtue/Moir retire there should still be three strong teams to send (Weaver/Poje, Paul/Islam and Gilles/Poirier).

  4. #144
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    Have Weaver/Poje said if they're going to retire after Sochi? I think they could fill the V/M shaped hole in Canadian ice dancing for a few years and grab a couple of national titles but the other teams are younger and improving very quickly and I don't see them holding on much longer.

    Paul/Islam are real contenders for 2018 if they remain injury free - they've really improved in the past two years. I still don't know about Gilles/Poirier, I just don't think their basic skating skills are very good at all - they lack polish. Ralph/Hill remain stagnant and never seem to improve season to season which I don't understand. They're going to drop off the radar soon if they don't get their act together. Orford/Williams remain completely average and whatever - boring, uninteresting skaters. They seem totally personality and charisma free off ice too.
    Last edited by princeton123; 01-25-2014 at 08:35 PM.

  5. #145
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    I much preferred the performance at Canadians of R&H to that of G/P. They had a wonderful FP. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the judging is the problem. I wonder if they moved to some 'name' coach if that would help give them a new lease on life. It worked for W/P who were stagnating before they went to Detroit. I think P&I are way overdue and IMO will overtake W/P sooner than later.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    I much preferred the performance at Canadians of R&H to that of G/P. They had a wonderful FP. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the judging is the problem. I wonder if they moved to some 'name' coach if that would help give them a new lease on life. It worked for W/P who were stagnating before they went to Detroit. I think P&I are way overdue and IMO will overtake W/P sooner than later.
    I think for R/H, the problem isn't as much the judging as it is they've stagnated technically and need more help than Carol Lane is able to give them.

  7. #147
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    Ralph/Hill have not been Lane's #1 team, ever. That isn't to say a coach can't do a great job with more than one team, even more than one team at the same level, but that doesn't mean they'll be treated equally. G/P had a wonderful program with an impeccable theatrical performance quality, but I thought Ralph/Hill moved and dance much better overall, especially in the FD.

    I love Paul/Islam, but I'm not sure I see them overtaking Weaver/Poje. I hope Krylova/Camerlengo give them range-extending programs over the next two years.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  8. #148
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    I would love R/H to get another coach. They're good dancers and Asher especially is such a charmer but their programs never seem to bring out their best. Carmelengo and Krylova might be a good fit but their stable is probably a little full right now.

  9. #149

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    Ralph/Hill remain stagnant and never seem to improve season to season which I don't understand.
    The whole point of my post was that the judges (at least) think they HAVE improved, since they had personal bests in all segments of the competition. Having said that, kwanfan 1818 may have a point. They may be getting the second-best programs from the coaching staff, which could be affecting their overall results. Like some of the other posters, I wouldn't mind seeing them move to another coach, just to see what would happen.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoskate View Post
    The whole point of my post was that the judges (at least) think they HAVE improved, since they had personal bests in all segments of the competition. Having said that, kwanfan 1818 may have a point. They may be getting the second-best programs from the coaching staff, which could be affecting their overall results. Like some of the other posters, I wouldn't mind seeing them move to another coach, just to see what would happen.
    I think that R/H had wonderful programs a couple of years ago, and were well rewarded for it at Worlds. They should have been 3rd at Nationals that year, and they had a strong debut at Worlds. But their material the last 2 seasons has been just horrendous. Really awful. And they are not making the technical improvements they need to progress nationally and internationally. R/H are definitely better than O/W, but their programs have definitely held them back nationally in my opinion. And for some reason which I can't figure out SC seems to prefer O/W, even though they have not done that terribly well internationally. I think R/H need to either move to new coaches (preferred), or the Lane team needs to expand its horizons and pull in experts for targeted work on packaging/music/technical refinement. I've never really understood why more of these elite coaches don't work together to complete the circle with their students, at least on targeted areas. It would help all of them.

  11. #151

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    In 2011-2012 RH had amazing FD. It was one of the best tangos i saw in ice dance. I remeber, how people were surprised and gave them a partial standing ovation in Nice. Maybe this happened because at that time Lane-Razgulayevs had more time for them. I like programs they did for Crone-Porie and now for GP. But they missed something for RH. After that tango i thought they could made a lot off great things in ice dance.
    This season FD. I like that this FD is pure dancing, they are emotionally connected with it, but for bring them on next level they need more.
    As for OW. You know i think they could have great potential and i remember how people liked them at JWCh in Minsk, but i dont like WL programs during last 2 seasons. Nothing special. I like only Delmaestro-Lum SD and FD. I know, a lot off people dont like them, but for me they are more interesting to watch, then other WL teams and Bent-MacKeen.
    And is OW want to have better results. they need to stop be a DW clones, like PI need to stop be VM clones and wait when VM will retier and hope to get medals with VM peograms. I remeber PI on there frist JWCh together and i could imaging they will look like VM at all, they had great personality.

  12. #152
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    I don't see how P/I are trying to be V/M clones with their programs. V/M are hardly the first ones that do that type of soft, classical, romantic skating.

  13. #153
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    pani, which V/M programs did P/I skate with W.E. and Legend of 1900?

  14. #154

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    This season SD - Funny Face. Last ans this season FDs.

  15. #155
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    I forgot that V/M own Gershwin's catalogue... That P/I's SD is a foxtrot/quickstep and Funny Face a more narrative piece moving through foxtrot, jazz, and waltz while loosely playing out a film's storyline is irrelevant in the face of music from the same composer and an opening pose.

    Are you likening Funny Face to both of the past two years' FDs as well (a comparison that is fairly challenging, to say the least), or was there another program that you feel both evoke?

  16. #156

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    I am talking not about music, but about moves, especially opening moves.
    Yes, that FD had different change of dance rythm, with they didnt show. I just try to say this team need more personality and this is just my own opinion.

  17. #157
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    But that's my question, essentially: if V/M are associated with quite a wide range of movement styles (and they are, because they're quite possibly the most versatile team in the sport's history), what are P/I doing that explicitly evokes V/M and not a lyrical and ballroom-based style? What are the choreographic moments clearly ripped from the other team, outside of this year's SD? V/M can't possess ownership over every style and musical selection they've done, but one of the primary rebuttals V/M's fans have made to their detractors is that V/M are not just the soft lyrical team, which would lead me to question how that larger category of movement, then, is theirs exclusively.

    Moving on to other topics, where R/H are concerned, it does seem as though they peaked with 2011-12. I don't want to assign the issue only to program choice, although they've not been served well by their last two FDs. I do think they're at a point technically at which they're not going to develop further under Lane's tutelage, but I'm also not sure if they're in a position to relocate.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavenderblue View Post
    Moving on to other topics, where R/H are concerned, it does seem as though they peaked with 2011-12. I don't want to assign the issue only to program choice, although they've not been served well by their last two FDs. I do think they're at a point technically at which they're not going to develop further under Lane's tutelage, but I'm also not sure if they're in a position to relocate.
    I feel like Lane doesn't quite know what to do with them. With G/P, she has a clear idea of their identity as a team but with R/H it's all over the place and they end up with programs that don't suit them at all. It also doesn't help that her main focus in the last few years has probably been getting G/P into the Olympics.

    If they're at all interested in relocating, Dubreuil/Lauzon might be an interesting idea. I've been really impressed with the quality of the choreography coming from their camp and there's no G/P-like team that would overshadow them.

  19. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazy View Post
    I feel like Lane doesn't quite know what to do with them.

    If they're at all interested in relocating, Dubreuil/Lauzon might be an interesting idea. I've been really impressed with the quality of the choreography coming from their camp and there's no G/P-like team that would overshadow them.
    ITA with both statements.

  20. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasperBoy View Post
    ITA with both statements.
    Me too. I think D&L would be a great fit for Ralph and Hill.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

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