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  1. #161
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    Ladies 2002 Gold- Slutskaya, Silver- Kwan, Bronze- Cohen. Too much is made about Kwan's short program win. I thought Irina's short program in SLC was only about 60% as good as her shorts at the GPF, worlds, Goodwill Games, and she had 2 obvious errors for me- a bad split second super travel in her last combo spin, and a major break in steps before the triple flip. She still lost the short by only .1 and would have easily won it with any of her much better shorts that season. Kwan's triple flip btw was NOT two footed, definitely not. It might have been a quarter turn cheated, but that was no deduction back then. I thought overall it was her best short program of the season despite the mediocre but still clean triple flip. I thought Irina was super gifted for her terrible LP which even if she didnt fall was IMO overall further from her best than Kwan's who did fall was from hers, especialy if you believe Irina would have done the tougher jumps of the two.

    Ladies 2006 Gold- Slutskaya, Silver- Shiz, Bronze- Cohen Slutskaya was the sentimental favorite in her last Olympics, and in Europe. She was never losing if she skated clean (by clean I mean without the really shaky landings she had on a few jumps and missed levels, besides the obvious mistakes) even if Shizuka and Cohen were sublime. Shizuka's 3-3s would carry her past Cohen and even if they didnt her jump GOE would do the trick.

    Men 2010 Gold- Lambiel, Takahashi, or Abbott, Silver- Lambiel, Takahashi, Abbott, or Chan, Bronze- Lambiel, Takahashi, Abbott, Chan, or Joubert. As you can see not really sure how this would go. Neither Lysacek or Plushenko would even medal though.

    Men 2014 Gold- Hanyu, Silver- Fernandez, Bronze- Chan

    Pairs 2010 Gold- Savchenko & Szolkowy, Silver- Kavaguti & Smirnov, Bronze- Shen & Zhao

    Pairs 2006 Gold- Totmianina & Marinin, Silver- Shen & Zhao, Bronze- Zhangs

    Ladies 1994 Gold- Baiul or Sato, Silver- Baiul, Sato, Kerrigan, or Bonaly, Bronze- Baiul, Sato, Kerrigan, Bonaly, or Chouinard. Another one I am not sure of. Dont think Chen would have ever medalled with the others skating cleanly though since the judges always underrated her then.

    Ladies 1998 Gold- Lipinski, Silver- Kwan, Bronze- Butyrskaya

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I don't dispute that. A clean Slute beat a clean Kwan from 2000ish to 2001. But then the short program in SLC happened and all bets were off....for that competition only. That Kwan beat her in the short with that two-footed jump was ridiculous. Surely Slute knew the fix was in after that and an American would have to meltdown for her to have a chance to win.
    I didnt see a two footed jump in Kwan's short program. An American would have to have a meltdown for Irina to have a chance to win? Arent you exagerrating a bit. Michelle had one fall and was otherwise perfect, Sarah skated the performance of her life, Sasha had one fall and was otherwise clean, and Irina with a poor skate and only 4 clean triples still beat Michelle, easily beat Sasha, and was .1 from beating Hughes who skated out of her mind.

    I do agree the judging was pro U.S in the ladies event in SLC though. All 3 of Kwan, Cohen, and Hughes were overmarked in the short program, and to a lesser degree the long program. Nobody even seems to care though, so I guess it is ok for Americans to do that kind of thing, but not Russians, Japanese, or Canadians at theirs.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I don't dispute that. A clean Slute beat a clean Kwan from 2000ish to 2001. But then the short program in SLC happened and all bets were off....for that competition only. That Kwan beat her in the short with that two-footed jump was ridiculous. Surely Slute knew the fix was in after that and an American would have to meltdown for her to have a chance to win.
    No 2-foot landing for Kwan in 2002 Olympics SP... The 3Flip was questionable in term of rotation, but not 2-footed.
    Anyway, I'm surprised so many people think Slutskaya would have won in 2002 if everyone goes clean, since she was clean in the SP and didn't win. Kwan was clearly favored in SLC. Plus, with a clean skate from Kwan, I'm fairly sure judges wouldn't have done the same as Nagano again. Kwan skating cleanly and losing.

  4. #164
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    On the contrary. The judges loved the overrated and overscored Irina Slutskaya much more than they ever liked Tara who wasnt even a judges favorite like Michelle, Irina, Oksana, and ohters and had to work for every mark she ever got. If it wasnt for her nerves in big events Irina probably would have won about 8 world or Olympic events. So if they were willing to put even Tara who they dont like that much above a clean Michelle, they certainly would have been willing to put Irina who they loved and badly wanted to give more big titles than she won above a clean Michelle if she herself skated really well. Michelle also would have needed her 3 toe-3 toe to even have the possability to beat a clean Irina, and she wasnt even planning to do it.

    I agree with what some others have mentioned. Had Irina and Michelle both skated clean Irina would have won any other time in 2000-2002, so why would 2002 Olympics be any different. Anyway both skated bad and Irina again finished ahead. So if both skated well probably the same result.

    What surprises me more is there are even a few people who have Irina not winning the 2006 Olympics if everyone skates cleanly. 2002 Olympics I could atleast see some thinking not, although I totally disagree, but 2006 LOL! There was no way Irina was skating cleanly and not winning the 2006 Olympics, unless she did a program with no 3-3 attempts at all and Shizuka did a program with two of them; and considering both were equally iffy to include any at all, that scenario is not a likely one. Irina had dominated the last year and half, was the sentimental favorite of everyone after her illness and it being her last olympics, Turin was always hers to lose. That they gave her not only the bronze overall but 3rd place in the LP for that lame ass performace with a fall, doubled major triple, a couple other bad landings, missed levels, and a slow and heavy performance she gave up on in the final minute plus after the major mistakes, says enough to what would have happened had she skated well.
    Last edited by ripingroar37; 06-18-2014 at 08:01 PM.

  5. #165
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    Irina was not overscored. She never won a title or medal she didn't deserve. I do agree with the Kwan supporters in this case that the huge gift Kwan got in the short program of Salt Lake City means the judges were probably planning to give her the gold if she was clean, whether Irina outskated her or not. Although if Kwan skated clean without the triple toe-triple and Irina skated clean with the two triple-triples combos she had planned the judges would have had no choice but to give clean Irina the gold over clean Michelle, but that is assuming the most and least each skater might have attempted.

    The 2002 and 2006 Olympics both should have been Irina's to lose since every other competition from 2000-2002 and 2005-2006 was Irina's to win or lose, and she was the best skater in the world all those years. However it seems for those Olympics the judges disrescpectfully ignored Irina's status of those years and favored Kwan in 2002 and Shizuka in 2006 over her, all things equal. Just like the short program in 2002 proved Michelle was the judges favorite, the short program in 2006 proved Shizuka had the gold in the bag if she landed 5 or 6 triples, even if Sasha or Irina cleanly did 7 or 6, unless Irina pulled her triple-triples out and Shizuka didn't. It shouldn't have been that way, especialy in 2006. Irina had been by far the best women skater the last 2 years going into Turin, and had dominated most of her competition with Kwan heading into SLC, but the judges ignored this. Shizuka didn't even make the grand prix final in 2006, the judges should feel ashamed anointing her the one to beat over Irina and Sasha. Don't get me wrong, she deserved the gold with how everyone skated, but the competition was made Shizuka's to lose, not Irina's to lose, and that was totally wrong. It was supposed to be Irina's to lose all along.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by irinayunafanatc View Post
    The short program in 2006 proved Shizuka had the gold in the bag if she landed 5 or 6 triples, even if Sasha or Irina cleanly did 7 or 6, unless Irina pulled her triple-triples out and Shizuka didn't. It shouldn't have been that way, especialy in 2006. Irina had been by far the best women skater the last 2 years going into Turin, and had dominated most of her competition with Kwan heading into SLC, but the judges ignored this. Shizuka didn't even make the grand prix final in 2006, the judges should feel ashamed anointing her the one to beat over Irina and Sasha. Don't get me wrong, she deserved the gold with how everyone skated, but the competition was made Shizuka's to lose, not Irina's to lose, and that was totally wrong. It was supposed to be Irina's to lose all along.
    Irina edged Shizuka in the SP though when both skated clean at the 2006 Olympics. It was Sasha whom the judges ranked ahead of Irina in the SP even though some of Cohen's jumps were eeked out, especially that relatively poor quality 2Axel, and the obviously flutzed 3Lutz. I remember at the time someone posted a skating protocol breakdown of GOE awarded for jump execution and Sasha was way down low on every judges' scorecard when it came to jump quality in the SP on all the jump elements, even though she did win that phase by a small margin. Cohen was never going to skate clean in the LP though, so it was a moot point. Arakawa had arrived in Italy like gangbusters in practices though landing 3Salchow+3toe+3loop(UR) combinations cleanly. Even though she was ranked 9th at the pre-Olympic Worlds, the judges were going to notice her nailing such a difficult jump pass. It was a great sadness to see what transpired for Slutskaya in the Torino LP. Her illness had overcome her by that point.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 07-01-2014 at 11:38 PM.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Irina edged Shizuka in the SP though when both skated clean at the 2006 Olympics.(
    Shizuka's short program was a good 5 points atleast worse than Irina and Sasha's. Yeah it was clean but it was a pretty ordinary skate with mostly average elements, and a blah program skated with no excitement. I was absolutely floored when she ended up almost tied. Apparently some others were too as you can tell by the reaction here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRxOVel6Ifg

    I am happy she won, but boy did she ever get a gift in the short program. She got one when she won the 2004 worlds too, even bigger than 2006, as her short in 2006 was atleast much better than her 2004 short and the 2004 worlds shorts program competition was even more spectacular by more skaters. Atleast in 2006 she ended up in the right place where in 2004 many felt she should have been 5th-7th and was 2nd, but of course in 2006 points matter not placements, and she got a big help when it came to the relative points.

  8. #168
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    Ladies

    1992- Kristi wins, Midori second, Tonya third
    1994- Yuka wins, Lu second, Surya third
    1998- Tara wins, Michelle second, Maria third
    2002- Irina wins, Michelle second, Maria third
    2006- Irina wins, Shizuka second, Sasha third
    2010- Yu Na wins, Mao second, Joannie third
    2014- Adelina wins, Yu Na second, Mao or Julia third

    Those are the placements if everyone skates perfectly

    1992- Victor wins, Kurt second, Petr third
    1994- Viktor wins, Kurt second, Scott third
    1998- Ilia wins, Todd second, Alexei third
    2002- Evgeny wins, Alexei second, Tim third
    2006- Evgeny wins, Stephane second, Jeff third
    2010- Brian wins, Stephane second, Daisuke third
    2014- Hanyu wins, Fernandez second, Patrick third

    Again with everyone perfect these are placements and medals.

  9. #169
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    Irina would win both the 2002 and 2006 Olympics skating cleanly.
    Plushenko would win all of the 2002, 2006, and 2010 Olympic skating cleanly.
    Mao would win both the 2010 and 2014 Olympic skating cleanly.
    Browning would win both the 92 and 94 Olympics skating cleanly.

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